Topic: a bit of work on my 77 TA

[Schroeder]

Just went through all 5 pages. Very nice work. I did want to point out that since you sand blasted the oil pan you will now need to drill out the spot welds on the baffle and clean the sand out. If you do not do this all you hard work on that engine will be for nothing. I had to do it to mine. It is not hard to do and you do not need to drill all the way through the spot welds. Clean it out then spot weld it back in. Also clean the plus and the threads.

  That Strato blue engine paint from Ames is amazing isn't it? Used it on my build. I have a 75 400 in my 78 and thought I would do it justice. Love the color. Ames did a good job.

thanks for the compliments!  I soaked the oil pan in parts cleaner and then thoroughly high pressure washed it immediately after the soak.  I thought this would have taken care of any sand remaining under the baffle.  I think I'll double check it before I break the welds.  I will feel up around the baffle with a wet cloth and see if I collect the slightest bit of dirt.  Thus far I have been completely confident with my cleaning methods and managing to get all the sand out.  I have followed the forementioned procedure in blasting and cleaning the oil pan as well as the transmission housing and other parts like the timing cover that connect to the inner mechanics of the car.  I will definitely follow up on this.

And yes, I love the blue paint!  Did you prime your engine with anything before the paint job? I saw your engine in your thread and loved it.  I hope mine turns out that well.

You will spend a ton of time trying to work that valley pan into shape, and they're usually full of crud between the panels. You are going this far, might as well do it right and not look back.  Also, a graphite rear main or a neoprene seal will be best for the rear main. check out Ace's place for the valley cover and graphite rear main:
 
 http://www.pacificperformanceracing.com

Or allpontiac.com for a neoprene rear main. Might be a good time to get thier one piece oil pan gasket too, just not sure who makes/carries it.

From what I understand, the new material rope seals are made from, they don't seal worth a hoot. HTH, Mike

$150 seems outrageous for a valley pan.  They're made of complete junk.  A buddy has an old 400 laying in his shed.  I'll check that valley pan before I buy a new one or work on mine.  However, I'm guessing his is in rough shape too because It's been sitting outside in this shed for God knows how long.  Thanks for the input guys, hopefully I get the crank in tonight or in the next couple days.  Then more interesting progress such as painting the engine will start happening!

[Justin]

Well I had my oil pan tanked and pressure washed out too. Being that sand is all different sizes it likes to get jambed in the tight areas like where the baffle meets the pan on the back side. Also it will jamb right around the spot welds. I couldn't see any sand in there but once I took the baffle out there was enough to fill a thimble. Just trying to look out for your best interest.

   Yes I did prime. It is not nessesary but I did and wet sanded the primer down so there were not any rough spots. That engine paint covers well but it cover even better over primer. I cleaned everything really well and then sprayed prep spray on it and wiped in all down.

   I have a valley pan. It is the one that has the smaller opening where yours is rusted. It's very clean. Somone has already expressed interest in it. I'll see if they still want it. $35 + shipping. Pm me it you are interested.

  Keep up the awesome job. Oh and what did your tranny build cost you for materials and what was replaced? Thanks.

[Schroeder]

I'll pry end up removing the baffle and putting it back in as you say, but I wanted to avoid this since I have already painted the pan.  I may look up under it with my micro-snake camera.  If I see anything I will try sucking it up with a very small tube jimmy rigged onto a shop-vac.  I may try a very small tube on the air compressor too to blow it out.  If this does not work I will be forced to remove the baffle. 

Where did you get your epoxy primer justin?  It seems like many of them come in a gallon size and I think a quart would be PLENTY for just painting an engine. 

I am VERY interested in the valley pan if it is sturdy.  I consider mine to be crap, so if yours is in much better shape than mine I will probably take it.  Can you get me pics ASAP?

When I rebuilt my Muncie I bought a "premium" upgrade kit that came with all the gaskets and such.  It also came with the counter gear shaft, input nut retainer cover, and torque sliders (for shifting gears).  I also needed to get a new 4th gear, reverse gear, and 1st gear.  I spent around $600 and got everything from thegearbox.org.  If you accidentally type in "thegearbox.com" you'll be brought to a site for a gay community, so don't make that mistake as I did haha.  Anyway, thegearbox is cheaper than ANYONE else I found and SUPER SUPER fast.  I'd always have my stuff the next day after ordering, granted they're in Michigan and I'm in NW Ohio.

[Justin]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

  That was a good laugh about the .org/.com. Thanks for that heads up. LOL
  I will send you the pics of valley pan. It is completely solid and completely clean. Let me check and see if the other guy is still interested.

  Also $600 sounds like the going rate. I was quoted $400 for the rebuild and 2nd gear replacement for a t-10 transmission. If I can't get my car done. during the driving season i'll be rebuilding the trans and rear end this winter.....not that we really have a winter though.

If you are able to get up under the baffle to have a good look and don't see anything then you might be good. The baffle came right out and my pan was also painted. It is amazing how well the Ames paint holds up to heat I torched the crap out of it and it never bubbled or flaked and even discolored. Very happy with it. A quart of epoxy is way plenty. Just need the activator for it. I think everything was like $38 for mine. I  had some left over from a previous project. Don't know if you have a good compressor or gravity feed gun but a small compressor and a siphon feed gun works well for epoxy. Siphon feed gun can be purchased at tractor supply,walart,lowes,home depot for like $30. Usually has a 1.8-2.0 tip which is what you need.

[TAFEVER]

Now here are the pictures concerning my questions....
1.  What is this on my steering column?  A neighbor told me this was for a automatic shifter on the column.  Where would this have come from?  I'd like to think that he is wrong because if he's right it means there is some incorrect piece of crap that was used to piece stuff together.



Hey what size of tire are you running on the back of your TA?

My 1979 TA/SE has the same lever on my steering column and mine is an original 4speed car...I am wondering if my column has been replaced or tampered with also?

[eroc022]

My 1979 TA/SE has the same lever on my steering column and mine is an original 4speed car...I am wondering if my column has been replaced or tampered with also?

no its on all of them, its for the neutral safety switch and reverse lights.... you are just missing the linkage that typically goes to them... most of the time removed when headers are installed....

[Schroeder]

Hey what size of tire are you running on the back of your TA?

My 1979 TA/SE has the same lever on my steering column and mine is an original 4speed car...I am wondering if my column has been replaced or tampered with also?

What size tire am I running?  A BIG A$$ one!  Honestly I don't know.  They do seem too wide though.  Often I think it looks like they're going to pop off the rim.  They look mean as hell, especially from behind.  I'll look up how to determine tire sizes based on the numbers, look at my tires tonight, and hopefully get back to you guys on that. 

My 1979 TA/SE has the same lever on my steering column and mine is an original 4speed car...I am wondering if my column has been replaced or tampered with also?

no its on all of them, its for the neutral safety switch and reverse lights.... you are just missing the linkage that typically goes to them... most of the time removed when headers are installed....

Thanks for the input eroc.  Now I can tell my neighbor that he doesn't know anything (which I will enjoy because he thinks he is a car guru).  I also know I have more stuff to buy -_-   What exactly does it do for the reverse lights?  I thought mine worked.  Maybe I should check this out though because I'm guessing they don't now that I have this info!

[81Turbo TA]

I'm late, but ,if you scroll down to the  bottom of the page here,,project beer run  you can see how he attacked his valley pan

[Schroeder]

I'm late, but ,if you scroll down to the  bottom of the page here,,project beer run  you can see how he attacked his valley pan

thanks turbo, but it looks like he started with a very sturdy valley pan and pretty much just cleaned and repainted it.  I should break my spot welds and clean it out, but we'll see what happens.  I have small holes in my valley pan and will have to patch these holes. In project beer run, the guy has no holes in the valley pan.

Here are the current questions I have.  I went to install my timing cover and its gasket set, but I don't know where half the stuff goes!  The pictures show my concerns.  By the way, the two rings circled on the top of the second picture are rubber.   Any help would be appreciated.





Also, the eccentric for the fuel pump that mounts on the camshaft timing gear does not have a specified torque in the service manual.  It just says put it on "tightly."  Should I use any loctite?

I'm reading scary things about getting this timing cover/intake/water pump to seal up right.  Are there any special procedures I need to follow?

[eroc022]

first pic... no thats an open hole for oil to kinda "splash" on the timing chain....
second pic, the one small rubber O goes on the intake where it meets the timing chain cover
the two bigger ones go on the inside of the water pump area on the timing chain cover... its actually in the pic where the smaller one is sitting....
the two blue plugs I completely forget where they go... and everything else seems sealed up so you should be fine, maybe someone else can chime in... usually Fel-Pro throws those in so that they can "hold" a gasket in place
as far as installing it... loosely start all your bolts... then I normally go the oil pan bolts, then the intake to water pump bolt.. then the remaining bolts, but you will need your water pump on first.... and make sure you clearance it properly....

[TAFEVER]

Hey what size of tire are you running on the back of your TA?

My 1979 TA/SE has the same lever on my steering column and mine is an original 4speed car...I am wondering if my column has been replaced or tampered with also?

What size tire am I running?  A BIG A$$ one!  Honestly I don't know.  They do seem too wide though.  Often I think it looks like they're going to pop off the rim.  They look mean as hell, especially from behind.  I'll look up how to determine tire sizes based on the numbers, look at my tires tonight, and hopefully get back to you guys on that. 


Yes if you could look at one of the back tires and let me know what numbers are on there it would be great....I don't think they look to wide at all.
I appreciate you checking on that.

[Schroeder]

first pic... no thats an open hole for oil to kinda "splash" on the timing chain....
second pic, the one small rubber O goes on the intake where it meets the timing chain cover
the two bigger ones go on the inside of the water pump area on the timing chain cover... its actually in the pic where the smaller one is sitting....
the two blue plugs I completely forget where they go... and everything else seems sealed up so you should be fine, maybe someone else can chime in... usually Fel-Pro throws those in so that they can "hold" a gasket in place
as far as installing it... loosely start all your bolts... then I normally go the oil pan bolts, then the intake to water pump bolt.. then the remaining bolts, but you will need your water pump on first.... and make sure you clearance it properly....

Alright, I thought that was an oiling hole.  I also was pretty sure that smaller rubber ring was for the intake to water pump/timing chain cover mating surface.  I'm still a little lost on where the two bigger rubber rings go even after reading what you said a couple times.  Could you save a quick copy of my pic to your desktop and circle where they belong on paint?  You could email me the paint file to jschroe6@rockets.utoledo.edu so you don't have to upload the picture anywhere.

Also, just to clarify, those to big rubber rings aren't replacement rubbers for the metal slider tubes that go in the timing chain cover/water pump area are they?  If you look in the picture I already have new SS ones installed in the cover.  They came with the rubbers too.

[eroc022]

yes what you said is correct...... they go under the SS tubes you have installed... but if you have new ones, no need to worry..

[Schroeder]

Hey what size of tire are you running on the back of your TA?

My 1979 TA/SE has the same lever on my steering column and mine is an original 4speed car...I am wondering if my column has been replaced or tampered with also?

Fever, here are the numbers from my rear tires: P295/50R15 105S M+S

yes what you said is correct...... they go under the SS tubes you have installed... but if you have new ones, no need to worry..

eroc, I think I understand you, but I thought I would take a picture of them installed and make sure we were on the same page.


Here I have some other questions as well....





This is a door hinge:


Does anyone have an answer for the fuel pump eccentric's torque?  Again, the manual just says tighten, where other things specify a torque.  My assumption is that it means what it says.  Get the eccentric bolt tight, but it doesn't have to be torqued to a specific number.  Does anyone have any info on that?

[joe d]

use loctite on the eccentric and you will find the donut gasket for exhaust at a local muffler shop, shifter is a PITA and door hinges may require a helping hand or building a block set up to hold door without scratching or denting