Topic: pontiac 301

[kjkjkcjkcj]

if you have the vin number.  People on here can verify it for sure

[bobspacin80ta]

Vin wont verify. Phs or build sheet.

[Michael C]

Isn't the build sheet under the backseat if i am correct?

[dewcrazzy]

top of the gas tank also.

[Michael C]

Alright. So what am i looking for one the build sheet exactly?

[kjkjkcjkcj]

the build sheet is usually either stuffed under a seat or on top of the gas tank.  On there it will tell you details about your car.  If you scan it into your computer and upload it to this forum we can help you read it.

[Michael C]

The car just got it's first good coats of black paint. I'll post up some pictures when i can. It looks really straight though.

[72blackbird]

As nice as it is to have a original, matching numbers 2nd gen TA, any of them w/ a 301 or 301T is never gonna be a a real muscle car in terms of performance, and will always be slower than even a stock 400 or 455-powered 2nd gen TA or Firebird. Adding speed parts on a 301 is a waste of time IMO and a good way to blow up your numbers-matching engine- store it in your garage in a plastic bag, swap in a 400 or 455, and experience what a fast 2nd gen TA really feels like.

[Michael C]

The reason im willing to do some work to the engine because it is not the original engine. It's the correct displacement, however the original was blown long ago, and when i got it the other engine it had in it had water in the cylinders, so it was shot. The one i have is a great looking crate engine (Took forever to find) so i figured i might as well do some slight mods to it. If i can get it to work, then it'll be one of the few 301s out there that has some fire to it. I'm not going to be doing this all at once, these are over time upgrades as i get the money. Don't get me wrong, i'm not going crazy with the 301, just doing some common tweaks to get it to come to life. If i had the money i would buy i 455 off a friend, but it's got a less than desirable compression ratio and don't want to get new heads for it, plus i already have a brand new engine practically.

[72blackbird]

Non- original engine = not numbers matching, and that's a big loss of value in the collectors' market for musclecars. And while the 301 you have may be correct for the TA, it still will never replace an original engine once it's gone.

Warming up the existing 301 might get you another 20-30 hp at the most w/ the usual bolt-ons, but due to the poor flow characteristics of the 301 heads (you can't use 326 or 350P heads due to the deck height difference) you won't see a better power increase compared to doing the same mods on a 326-455. You'll also find aftermarket bolt-ons of the 301 are limited, compared to finding speed parts for the 326-455. This is also why you won't find alot of articles on souping up a 301- for the same money you can do a larger Poncho V-8 and get a far better hp return on your investment.

A running 301 is still better than nothing at all though- just forget about trying to make it keep up w/ even a 326.

[78w72]

i agree with 72blackbird about the 301 never really being a true performance engine,  especially compared to a 455. hows the old saying go.. "there's no replacement for displacement" 

however any engine will respond to standard speed tricks.  the 301 can have mild port & polish work done to improve head flow, you can shave or deck the heads (& block) to incerease compression, get forged pistons if you want/need.  from there a good cam selection & headers plus a re-tuned q-jet or god forbid a holley      will make ALOT more than 20-30hp increases. closer to 100 or more depending on whats actually done. there is no reason the little 301 cant make respectable power for a daily driver or street car... & still get decent gas mileage.  also slightly higher stalll speed for the torque converter & maybe a lower gear ratio to help off the line performance. 

also just an FYI,  my 301 turbo engine is faster than a stock 75-78 L78 400 t/a.  it only has minor mods like egr removal, smog pump bypass, & upping the boost to 10psi. only 1 psi over stock, if i pushed it to 13-15 psi it would be even faster.  & there are others out there that have their 301t's into the 12's... & stock bottom end!  so again dont let anyone tell you a 301 cant be a decent performer... obviously nothing like a modified 400-455, but if its all you have to work with it can be a fun little engine.  plus its over 100 pounds lighter on the nose. 

just my .02 as an owner of a 78 w72 t/a & a turbo 301 t/a... & soon to be stroked pontiac 72 bird! 

[jjr]

> This is also why you won't find alot of articles on souping up a 301

   Actually, there's an entire forum that helps 301 owners...

   It has nearly 42,000 total posts in some 5400 or so topics.

   There are in fact some design areas that hamper what you can do,
 but the package has more to give than what it's factory trim did.

   It's use was due to government regs that made the 400 extinct,
 in the day it was set up for emissions, mileage and warranty
 concerns. Free from all of that it can make most owners happy,
 and unless you really like single digit gas mileage, it is a bit more
 practical.

 Joe

[Michael C]

Yeah i know that the 301 will never truly be able to compete with the larger engines, but i don't really want it too. I want it to have some pep, but not be a built-to-the-hilt engine. plus the gas mileage factor is good for me too because im a college student. Im not really looking to get rid of this car for resale either, im planning on keeping it (otherwise i would keep everything stock due to it being a Y84). Cosmetically it will be as original, just a few engine mods (Please don't kill me when you read this...)

[72blackbird]

I have no problem w/ anyone wanting to warm up or even rebuild a 301 or 301T- it's your money, engine, car and you should enjoy it as you see fit. In over 20+ years of rebuilding ponchos I've had more customer ask about souping up their 301, and when I showed them the cost to reach a certain hp level for the 301 vs. a 326-455 and make it near bulletproof the choice ended up being for the larger engine.

I do like the smaller bore ponchos like the 326 and 350P- they are also capable of making good hp while maintaining decent mpg. But unlike the 301, the 326 and 350P can use any heads from the traditional Pontiac V-8 family and share the 6.625 rods and 3.75" stroke crank w/ the 389 and 400. It's this common engine architecture that gives these small bore ponchos tremendous torque for their size. Finding forged pistons for either engine can be difficult or expensive (350P Probe flattops normally go for $479/set), but forged rods and even cranks are reasonable in price and good aluminum heads for these engines are now available. I recently built a 326 w/ 65cc KRE's  and 4340 H-beams- I expect that engine to make at least 375-400 hp from stock unported heads. That engine also has the potential to make even more hp, once the heads are ported- so I do also agree  that small- bore ponchos can make power.

Geno

[Michael C]

Haha i was more talking about people wanting to kill me after i said i was going to mod a Y84 301. But yeah, i get what you are saying about it not being a truly wise building investment when compared with other poncho engines. If i had known what i do now about the 301, i probably would have gotten a 350P over it, but since i already have a practically new engine, im just going to work with it and see what i can do. Thanks for the engine talk though, really appreciated it. First time really digging into what i can do with one.