Topic: pontiac 301

[k_garretson23]

ok so i got a 79 t/a with a non turbo pontiac 301 in it. it is all matching numbers and everything but being a teen i want to be able to go fast. i already asked my dad if i can get a pontiac 400. he said no without hesitation cause he wants it to stay matching numbers..which is undersandable. but does the 301 have any potential to be a good fast engine?

[Rick]

There are some tricks that you can work on it, but in the end you can't push it too hard or you'll break it.  The crank in particular isn't made to take a lot of abuse.  The whole point of the 301 engine was to cut weight out of the car, so the block and the crank had a lot of material removed compared to earlier engines.  Other changes were made also (like in the cylinder heads) all with the same goal -- removing weight.  Unfortunately, GM decided to go with the SBC 305 as the corporate engine for all F-bodies after the 81 model year so the 301 died.  Pontiac never had a chance to mature the engine and develop its full potential.

Joe Richter, who posts here and on TAC under the ID "jjr", is the resident 301 and 301T expert.  He has a website that's dedicated to the 301 engine.  The 301 makes for a good cruiser and can return decent fuel economy.  There's no question that a car with the original engine will bring more on resale than one that's had the engine changed out for another displacement, so your dad is correct on that count.

I'd hunt Joe up and reference the materials he has to improve the baseline performance of your 301.

[bobspacin80ta]

I will second that.

[jjr]

 I have two sides to the site...

 A very basic website with a number of faq-like articles and the
forum side, which hosts a growing number of folks that tweak
their 301 powered cars.

 Please take some time and look through it and then holler with
any questions...

 Joe R

[Rick]

It just occured to me -- the link would be nice!

http://www.301garage.com/

Sorry for that oversight! 

[sCI]

so do they make Hi po cranks for the 301, and do 400 heads fit? they seem like a good cruisin engine anyways.. good luck man, don't try and go too fast in it, especially if it is original and your young...tickets bad...(i haven't heard of hardly any hi-po 301 parts, ever!)

[Rick]

I'm not aware of any stronger cranks for the 301, and while the bolts will line up on standard heads (IIRC), there are no intake manifolds for them because the deck heights are shorter and the standard intakes won't fit (problem with the geometry of the "V").  There is also the problem that the chamber volumes are too large for the smaller 301 displacement, meaning you can't get an decent compression ratio with them.  Basically the aftermarket never stepped up for an engine that was only in production for a few years and wasn't widely used.  I'm sure Joe's got all the ones who did well-covered at this webiste at the 301 garage.

[jjr]

 While lore often tells of weak 301 crankshafts, it isn't accurate.

 Sure, any metal part can fail no matter what engine your talking about...

 Racers and tweakers have revved to 5k and 6k regularly and retuned,
but since the engine wasn't designed for peak power that high, there's
no reason to go there.

 While other Pontiac heads more or less fit, - Rick's right, the deck height
makes any other intake unsuitable.

 The 301/301T has more potential, enough to be reasonably happy.

 I guess in summary, the path to realizing more performance from a 301/301T
isn't exactly the same as say a 400 or 455.

 Joe R
 

[78w72]

like joe said the 301 will never be a 400/455.....but.....it can & will benefit from all the standard performance tricks. you can bore it for more cid, shave the heads/deck the block for higher compression, port the heads & increase valve size. & of course add a bigger cam with roller rockers. also get a nice rebuilt q-jet, bigger holley or edelbrock carb. then there's the tranny improvements like a higher stall & shift kit, & get lower gears.

all that stuff willl wake up the 301 alot & could actually be a respectable little engine. 

[stimpy]

or you can do what alot of collectors do and pull the engine/trans and store it sealled up in a bag for long term and build a second motor trans ( to any degree you want) so if it goes boom you didn't damage the original one .

[Michael C]

Hey, i actually have a little 301, naturally aspirated, in my 79 T/A Bandit edition... I was wondering, do you think that it could safely handle a 100 shot of nos? Because, since there's not alot i can do as far as heads and stuff go, i want to have power, but, not exactly fork alot of money into it... I was also thinking about opening up the shaked hood scoop, making it breathe better, and bolting some headers on to it with an X-flow exhaust... Good ideas?

[4SPEED]

Hey, i actually have a little 301, naturally aspirated, in my 79 T/A Bandit edition... I was wondering, do you think that it could safely handle a 100 shot of nos? Because, since there's not alot i can do as far as heads and stuff go, i want to have power, but, not exactly fork alot of money into it... I was also thinking about opening up the shaked hood scoop, making it breathe better, and bolting some headers on to it with an X-flow exhaust... Good ideas?

bro if you have a 79 301 SE , that car needs restored.   there was only 573 made.  213 manual , 360 auto trans

[kjkjkcjkcj]

Hey, i actually have a little 301, naturally aspirated, in my 79 T/A Bandit edition... I was wondering, do you think that it could safely handle a 100 shot of nos? Because, since there's not alot i can do as far as heads and stuff go, i want to have power, but, not exactly fork alot of money into it... I was also thinking about opening up the shaked hood scoop, making it breathe better, and bolting some headers on to it with an X-flow exhaust... Good ideas?

First off welcome to the site and second off i would totally agree with 4 SPeed, Are you sure it is a true SE?  If so i wouldn't put any after market parts on  that and go completely stock.  If speed is what you want keep that car and buy yourself a gen4 TA with an LS1.  However anyone who knows anything about TA's knows how rare that car you have is.

ok so i got a 79 t/a with a non turbo pontiac 301 in it. it is all matching numbers and everything but being a teen i want to be able to go fast. i already asked my dad if i can get a pontiac 400. he said no without hesitation cause he wants it to stay matching numbers..which is undersandable. but does the 301 have any potential to be a good fast engine?

See if your dad will let you take the motor out and store it that way when you go to sell it you still have the original numbers matching motor in it. Any mods i have done to my car like new heads etc, i have kept all the old parts so i can still have a numbers matching car.

[Michael C]

I know it's the Bandit edition. It's almost all the way done. And unfortunately it can't be all matching numbers The idiot who had it before me blew the original up, got another motor. Then when i got it, it was blown up (again) with 2 inches of sludge at the bottom of the oil pan. So this is this car's 3rd engine, with only 67,000 miles on it.

 I got it looking something like this (I can't get ahold of the VIN at the moment, it's having it's body work done. :










It does not look anything like this now. It's sitting in a body shop right now (the guy who's doing it for me is a friend who's a real pro at this stuff) in full primer, ready for paint. Also, to further vent my dislike of the previous owner, he left a bag of fertilizer in the trunk... then the car sit for 15 years. No truck, no gas tank, no rear end basically under the body. So, finding all those parts took me forever. But, she's almost done, and i can't wait to have her back. If she's a true SE, then i'll be ecstatic. However, since the engine is from a different vehicle, i don't see how NOS would effect the value of it. I may be wrong :/

[Michael C]

So after doublechecking other picures i have taken, along with the faded stripes, and the gold accented bumper grilles... i believe it is indeed one of the SEs...