Hitman's Pontiac Trans Am Forum
Trans Am Information => Trans Am Tech => Electrical => Topic started by: 79 Rebel on March 14, 2009, 10:46:21 AM
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ok 78
something isnt making sense here is a pic if you look
all is good with wiring on the number 1 side
but looking at side 9 through 16
the ones that you have empty look as though something should be there because they have the circuits there
take a look
here is the list for that side you gave me
9,black
10.11.12..empty
13.dark green..( my dark green is a double wire is this correct)
14.double light blue
15.orange with black stripe
16/empty
[attachment deleted by admin over 60 days old]
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16/empty
15.orange with black stripe
14.double light blue
13.dark green..( my dark green is a double wire is this correct)
12.11.10..empty
9,black
;)
edit: After posting this I got wondering. If those are backwards are the wires #1-8 right? If I remember what he told you when he gave you those wire colors/order #s 8 and 9 are supposed to be at the same end of the plug, right?
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This is the order I gave you:
1. Gray
2. Black
3. Pink with white stripe
4. Double light brown (the is for the ebreak light)
5. Pink
6. Double..dark blue and light blue with white stripe
7. Light green
8. Dark blue (oil pressure)
9. Black
10. Empty
11. Empty
12. Empty
13. Dark green (temp sender)
14. Double light blue
15. Orange with black stripe
16. Empty
Larry, I've never seen a double green.
The black wire, pin number nine and the blue wire, pin number 8 go on top when you plug the connector into the cluster. Larry how on earth could you remember something like this? Amazing!
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This is the order I gave you:
1. Gray
2. Black
3. Pink with white stripe
4. Double light brown (the is for the ebreak light)
5. Pink
6. Double..dark blue and light blue with white stripe
7. Light green
8. Dark blue (oil pressure)
9. Black
10. Empty
11. Empty
12. Empty
13. Dark green (temp sender)
14. Double light blue
15. Orange with black stripe
16. Empty
Larry, I've never seen a double green.
The black wire, pin number nine and the blue wire, pin number 8 go on top when you plug the connector into the cluster. Larry how on earth could you remember something like this? Amazing!
I didn't. ;) I just took his list and turned it upside down. lol I think he's looking at something upside down. The only thing I remembered is what you said about those two pins being next to each other.
That's also where the double green wire came from. That's what he says he's got.
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Someone messed up his wiring pretty badly. Easy to fix though.
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Yeah, but can he afford a new harness? lo :P
Just kidding. l;)
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so what wires go on the 9 through 16 side in what order....
because look at the pic and where my tabs are by the plug in
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nm, I'm not all here today. ::)
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150 is ground and 31 is the oil sender wire. You have to be careful because they give you a view as if you're looking at the end where the wire enters (and upside down). It's best to go by the pin number which is moulded into the connector.
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Oh never mind. I see what you're saying. I don't know what I was seeing. ::)
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i still dont get what everyone is saying
so what wire goes where on that side
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Look at the connector. There"s numbers on the side. Match the number with the color as I indicated above.
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Double check me. I think this is right according to your list.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b230/SirLDragon/tech/plug.jpg)
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If he matches the pin number /color l've given above he'll be OK. That picture you posted is from the wire end...so the gray wire is pin number one. It's confusing because it indicates "8" there. But "8" refers to the circuit number not the connector pin number. Just like "150" is the ground circuit.
I have a really hard time going by those pictures. I have a cluster connector with wire ends that someone cut off a wiring harness. It came with a cluster I bought. I use that rather than the pictures because I'd have to stop and think about how to translate that picture to real life....cause it's upside down and backwards......I happen to keep that old connector in my desk drawer. I've referred to it a thousand times....and you guys probably thought I was smart! I need visual aids!
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That makes sense. I'm pretty good with just pictures myself. but having that plug you have would definitely be easier. That one is actually laid out the same way as the picture of his circuit he posted.
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ok if you guys look at the pic of my cluster
the wiring the way im doing it with the list is putting 3 wires on top
look at my cluster : the pic is upside down"
its 1 at top and 3 at bottom
see what i mean
the wiring cant work that you gave me because the 3 are on bottom where they make contact not on top
i really need help on this
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Are you reading the numbers on the connector and matching the colors I gave you? The numbers are moulded into the sides of the connector. In your picture of the circuit, gray would be top left...pin number one, just like Larry's picture.
So on the right side...starting from pin 1
Gray
black
pink/w white stripe
double brown
pink
double dark blue /light blue w white stripe
light green
dark blue
There, I just wrote this from my connector wit the cut wires and compared it to larry's picture.....the same.
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ok ta lol
im sorry im so confused
i have all the wires the right way in the connecotr but if you look at my cluster
that order wont work on the 9 through 16 side because the printed circuit tabs are not in the right place to make a connection do you see what i mean
hes my cluster
and heres the pic he posted it dont match up
i circled what i mean
[attachment deleted by admin over 60 days old]
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It works, Larry's picture needs to be rotated clockwise 180 degrees. Don't look at the pictures, it's confusing you. Look at the connector and match the colors with the numbers
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see thats what is confusing me it looks like one the one side theres 3 at the top but on mine the 3 have to be on the bottom see my pic
i adjusted it so it is right side up
i will do tomorrow ill just go look at it outside
so should i hook up the double dark green or it doesnt go in here
also where should i stick the extra black wire just in a black slot
this is a 79 cluster right
cause the ad when i put it said 75 through 79
maybe thats why the wires arent matching
[attachment deleted by admin over 60 days old]
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I think the wires are the same for 75 through 79.
Connect the double dark green. That's in connector slot 13, next to an empty 12 and the double blue..right?
As far as the extra black wire, are you sure it's extra. Before you said you didn't have a dark green and thought one of the black wires was spliced to the dark green. Anyway, use an ohm meter to make sure that dark green wire is for the water temp sender.
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i dont have a meter
i wish i did
i thought maybe one was spliced yes if it is spliced then what is the purpose of the double green
2 of the black wires are going in with the other wires
and the extra one is running up towards the head light switch
the double green was just taped up and not being used at all
as well as a dark brown wire also that is not being used
i dont know what to do with it
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(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b230/SirLDragon/tech/79DashPlug.jpg)
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Thanks So Much
Sir and 78
i couldnt have done it without you guys
and i hope i wasnt a bad pain
sir do yo have any clue what the double dark green is ? it has never been hooked up because it was taped off
also have a dark brown that is not hooked up because its taped off
also do you guys have a chart on what each color wire controls ?
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Ok, last one for tonight. Gotta get up early and then work another shift at work tomorrow night. :(
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b230/SirLDragon/tech/79DashPlug2.jpg)
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alright thanks
ill be putting it in tomorrow
before i do
i know i have 3 black
tried to trace them but they all seem black
so what is the double dark green im guessing that is for the water gauge right?
and where should i stick the extra black one at ?
just in an empty slot or can i leave the wire out for the clock since all the second hand does is go around and waste battery and put the 3 rd black wire there
thank you
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Buy a multimeter. You can't do electrical work without it. You can find a cheap one that will give you ohm's and volts. That's about all you need. And, it doesn't need to be all that precise. The one I have (thanks to my wife) cost almost $400. But until Christmas, I used a 30 year old analog multimeter that didn't cost much. I even received one free with an order from some sort of catalog store a while back...oh yeah it's a cheap thing...but it works.
Larry, you're the best! Those pictures clear things up! Good work!
As for the dark green wire, yeah that probably is the temp sender wire. But it would be nice to be sure. An ohm meter would tell you right away. And, as for the grounds, an ohm meter would tell you if those wires are really grounded. You kind of need to know that because if they've been cut, you're circuit won't work. Those ground wires are gathered into a big splice somewhere in the dash harness. You could put the extra black one in one of the empty slots. But I'm puzzled as to why you have an extra one. That's why an ohm meter would be a very nice thing to have. Don't you know anyone who has one and would show you how to use it and help you a little? It would take about five minutes.
Make sure you've got a black wire for ground on the dash frame. It should be on the dash frame, drivers side, bottom inside. It would have an eyelet with a fastener holding it on.
This site may help you:
http://www.firebirdtransamparts.com/techinfo/harness/harness.htm
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good news is
now both turn signals are working...
wont know about dash lights until tonight
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hey guys
in order for the dash lights to work
does the cluster have to be bolted in to make a ground or no
i just went of there to test the dash lights and they did not work
but i dont have the cluster bolted in
both turn signal lights do work though so that is a plus
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No you should be getting a good ground. Make sure all the bolts on the circuit are tight though.
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well this is bad news
i guess the foil did not work to fix the tear
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I gave you three options, one was foil. Looks like you're not having luck with that. Trace the circuit. I think there's one bulb on one side of the break and three on the other side of the break.
Here's an idea. Take the bulb out that's before the break. Look at the metal tabs on each side. Notice how the tab curves up and there's a little space between the metal and the plastic bulb housing. I think you could take a small solid copper wire and force it into that space and it should hold. You could put a piece of tape on it to hold it too. Then, do the same thing on a bulb after the break. That would supply power to the entire circuit.
Just like I did here:
note, this is a last ditch attempt to save the circuit. If this doesn't work you'll have to replace it. By the way, in the picture I didn't use the right bulb on the left hand side. I should have used one two bulbs to the right......Ooops! But this took me about five minutes to do. This ought to work. Also, double check to make sure you've got both wires on the 12 volt circuit and not one on 12 volt and the other on ground. You'll want to be on the top of that bulb two over on the bottom.
[attachment deleted by admin over 60 days old]
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ok thanks
so i can just use any wire that i have cut it and hook it up into where the bulb is
do it just like you have done it right - one bulb to the other or two to two
also i had alot of luck today i dropped the whole steering colum made it alot easier and its still down so imma try this
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Just one bulb on one side of the break and another on the other side of the break. Look at the side of the your bulb and you'll see where you can slide the wire in.
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ok and you said in your picture you put it on the wrong bulb right
and just normal wire will work
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ok and you said in your picture you put it on the wrong bulb right
and just normal wire will work
Normal wire. Trace the circuit that's bottom left from where the cluster plugs in. That's the illumination circuit. So, that first bulb is your target. Trace the circuit to the other side of the cluster connector and find another bulb...that's you second target. Once the wire is in place, you should have dash lights. Also, put some black electrical tape around those two bulbs so the wires don't come off and ground.
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ok i tried it and im guessing i did it correctly
i took a black wire put the one end in the socket where the little tab is stuck it in above the tab
and did the same on the other side
what happened was when i turned headlights on it sent a power surge and restarted the radio?
i have no clue why did i do it wrong
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ok now that i read your reply
i may have done something wrong
i put the wire in the second bulb from left
and i didnt use tape so some of the wires were hanging out
maybe if you get time you could post pic where you slide the wires in
i think i know but my wires too thick
so maybe what i did caused the radio to turn on and off
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The radio uses the gray wire for illumination. So if you turn on the dash lights, the radio light should come on. But, if your radio actually came on rather than the lights.....we're going to have another long thread to fix that.
A picture of the wire won't do you any good, I guess I could pull the bulb and take a picture of that. But you are stringing that wire from bulb to bulb, aren't you? And you're careful to make sure that both wires are connected to the bulb part that touches the 12 volt circuit, aren't you?
Why don't you connect the wires and post a picture of the back of your cluster. I can tell by looking at it if you have it right.
Before you connect it, we're going to have to trace your radio wires. But let's tackle that after you get the bulbs wired. I haven't tried a fix like this before. It's just an idea and I'm curious to see if it works. In the past, I've told people to replace the circuit. But I think this will work.
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my radio was already on playing music
and when i turned the headlights on it sent a power surge to the radio and restarted the cd
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ok this would be correct right
on the left at first i had the black wire in the second bulb
like i said it didnt turn the radio off or on
just a power surge but maybe its because the copper wires were hitting cluster
i am determined to fix this dash damn it !!!! lol
were getting somewhere i do have turn signals lol
also 78 can i disconnect the clock wire and leave it out and put my 3rd black wire there instead
[attachment deleted by admin over 60 days old]
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You've got that wired correctly. Put some electrical tape on those two bulbs. It's a shame you don't have an ohm meter to test the circuit. You could tell whether or not it's going to work.
As far as the clock, are you talking about slot fifteen of the cluster connector? You could leave that wire out, but it's hot all the time so you better tape the end with electrical tape. As far as sticking a ground wire in that slot, I wouldn't.
Now, let's check the radio wiring. The harness comes from the factory with a black connector that fits into the back of the stock radio. That connector has three or four wires depending on whether or not you have a power antenna. I'm going to assume you don't have the power antenna.
You should be able to locate that black connector in the area under the dash behind the radio area. If you can't see that connector (which means it's probably been cut) look for unconnected yellow, black and gray wires. The yellow wire is switch powered and powers the radio, black is ground and gray lights the front of the radio. It sounds like you've got an aftermarket radio, so you need to locate those three wires to see if they've been spliced to power your new equipment. When radios are installed, the installers like to cut and splice, and they may not know exactly what they're doing. Locate those three wires for me.
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yes the radio is wired fine..
i went through this about 4 years ago
when i put the new cd player in
i had to track all the wires due to the fact that they spliced everything wrong..
ok so just hook the wire up like that and put black tape around the socket's
im guessing it surged before because the copper was hitting the cluster..
ok so what do you suggest if i dont plug the extra black where the clock is what should i do with it..
2 blacks are in with the rest of the wires.
the 3rd is going up by the headlight switch which im guessing is grounded somewhere
maybe i have 3 because the 81 cluster had 2 grounds could this be ?
P.s.
i have never had battery or gas lights
and still dont
once about a month ago they turned whenever the car key was on but then that stopped
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We can address your fuel and volt gauges in another thread. That will be easy.
I'd plug that baby in and see what happens. As far as the extra black wire....you could be correct that you harness had one more than the 79. So, wrap some electrical tape around the end and don't use it...just let it hang.
Hopefully we'll have it. And, I think you could be right about your jumper wire. It may have touched ground. I hope this works!!
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Ok thanks for all your help
at school now when iget hom eill hook it up and see
and oh boy are we gonna have fun in the new thread lol
so just to make this clear
the black wire thats coming from up near the headlight switch just tape it and leave it not plugged in ?
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Ok thanks for all your help
at school now when iget hom eill hook it up and see
and oh boy are we gonna have fun in the new thread lol
so just to make this clear
the black wire thats coming from up near the headlight switch just tape it and leave it not plugged in ?
Well, I'm not exactly sure what wire that is. But if it's coming from the headlight switch it wouldn't hurt to get that wire grounded. I don't have an 81 wiring diagram. But black wires are ground. There should be a ground wire connected to an eyelet that's screwed into the dash frame under the headlight switch......on the bottom metal rail of the dash where your knee would be when you're driving. You could attach that wire at that place. But I'd hate to cut anything so try to figure out a way to wrap another wire around the end, tape it and then attach it to ground.
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ok lol
well for now ill leave it totally out and see what happens
it could be that it is doing nothing
or ill just cut it and splice it with one of the other black wires that will work right
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Yeah, black is ground. If you have some jumpers....with the alligator clips. You could jump that wire to a ground place just to make sure all the grounds are connected. But black is ground, and they're all spliced together in a big splice in the wiring harness.
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should i take socket out and wrap the wire around for the lights
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should i take socket out and wrap the wire around for the lights
You can just push the wire into that slot between the metal and plastic for the bulb socket. If you can't get it in, you can try lying the wire on the circuit and push the bulb against and lock it. That may hold it.
If you take the bulb socket out and wrap it, I think you'll end up putting to much pressure on the copper circuit and you could tear it. Those circuits weren't the best designed things.
Edit:
I just tried placing the wire on the circuit pad and placing the bulb on top of it and locking the bulb into the hole with a twist. That seems to hold the wire just fine without damaging anything. I would still lay some tape over the wire to hold it...maybe along the entire length of that jumper. But that ought to work just fine.
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SUCCESS
IT WORKED FULL DASH LIGHTS
BUT NO GAS OR BATTERY LIGHT
IM COOL WITH THAT
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What's this gas light you are talking about?
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the gas and battery gauge
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SUCCESS
IT WORKED FULL DASH LIGHTS
BUT NO GAS OR BATTERY LIGHT
IM COOL WITH THAT
Good for you! You've learned a heck of a lot doing that. You'll remember this exercise the rest of your life.
I'll respond to your gas light thread tomorrow.
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thanks so much for everything ta78w72
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SUCCESS
IT WORKED FULL DASH LIGHTS
BUT NO GAS OR BATTERY LIGHT
IM COOL WITH THAT
Congrats, Ive been following this thread. Good for you...
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thanks
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thanks
Don't celebrate too quickly. Go through the picture that Larry posted and make sure all those functions work...i.e. bright light indicator, ebrake indicator etc.
One thing you may have a problem with. Your screen name has 79 in it and all the while I was thinking you had a 79 Trans Am, but I think you indicated that you have an 81. If that's the case, your temp gauge won't work unless you change the sender. GM changed the resistance spec in either 80 or 81 I always forget. So, you'll need a new sender to get proper readings. But check back here and let us know if all your functions work.
But really good job.
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i have a 79 firebird
basically trans am clone
has the ta dash
scoop
i changed out my temp gauge a few years ago and monuted it next to steering wheel
all functions work
now how do we fix this gas gauge
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TA78
Dash is bright on tach side and the speedo but past 50mph its dull light
how can i fix this
before when just the speedo light was working it was very bright now only to 50
hopefully you can help
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My '76 is dark on the right as well ... but I don't drive it at night so I've sort of put it off.
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same here
i mean before the tach light ws working the speedo was bright
but now everything works just past 50 is dull light
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Yeah, but now the blinkers are starting to give me problems. I've a multi-meter - just need to start checking fuses and bulbs and then trace down wires I guess.
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yea ta78 really helped me
all my dash works now turn signals and everything
just the damn speedo now