Author Topic: 78 w72 400 or?  (Read 7739 times)

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Offline Mitch5690

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78 w72 400 or?
« on: January 08, 2010, 03:19:27 PM »
So the guy i bought my engine from wasnt real observant and turnsout its a 400. Now this is where i get confused right below the heads is a WC and the block number is 28n110090 but up top the block cast is a 481988 which i thought after 75 switched 557 castings any ideas?

Offline Mitch5690

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Re: 78 w72 400 or?
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2010, 03:38:37 PM »
oops wrong spot

Offline jphillips3333

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Re: 78 w72 400 or?
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2010, 10:05:12 AM »
28n110090 is the date code with the last six being the VIN.
2 is Pontiac
8 is August
N is Norwood

I knew the above at one time but I might be a little off - I know the last six are the VIN.

Up near the distributor is where the two digit year code is
Check this link
http://wallaceracing.com/engineid.jpg
John

                                 1 of 1107                     1 of 37,015                    1 of 1817

Offline jonathonar89

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Re: 78 w72 400 or?
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2010, 02:26:53 PM »
I have a factory correct W72 400 in my '79 T/A and it's a 988 casting as well.  Go on TAC and checkout the W72 section on that forum and you should very useful info on the W72 package.

Offline John Witzke

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Re: 78 w72 400 or?
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2010, 09:03:28 PM »
The 481988 block was re-introduced for the 1978 model year to complete the W72 engine program build out.  Your 481988 block code WC (4-speed) is correct for 1978 and should have XX cast on it as well.  The only W72 engines to get the 500557 blocks were 1977's only.

Outside of Pontiac Motor Division I probably have more info that just about anybody.  If you have further questions you can contact me at pontiacw72@yahoo.com

      
« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 09:06:55 PM by John Witzke »
John Witzke

Offline jonathonar89

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Re: 78 w72 400 or?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2010, 12:51:28 AM »
I've been told not to build Pontiac blocks due to their weakness by a Pontiac engine builder I'm not going to name as of the moment.  How much power/stress can a '79 4 spd. 988 casting handle?  I would like to eventually by right around 550 hp/600 ft lbs with aluminum heads and a 455 crank.

Offline brian c

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Re: 78 w72 400 or?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2010, 12:00:59 PM »
Certain Pontiac blocks are weaker than others. The earlier blocks had a higher nickel content and were not modified by Engineers for weight reduction (increased mileage).

So that statement is a little slanted. If you're going for that HP rating you may want to look at the earlier blocks for piece of mind.


Who's the engine builder??

1978 Y88, '70 455 HO block bored 0.060, TH350, 3.42:1 gears...Oct '08 Fbodywarehouse Calendar - Woot!
1980 Firebird - no engine/tranny... to be pacecar clone

Offline jonathonar89

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Re: 78 w72 400 or?
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2010, 12:45:20 PM »
This all seems to be confusing me.  The w72 blocks used in 78-79 were a reintroduced 988 casting but many say not to build later blocks due to their weakness.  Can anyone clear me up on this?  Did these blocks avoid the whole weight savings program?

Offline Rick

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Re: 78 w72 400 or?
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2010, 09:12:58 PM »
This all seems to be confusing me.  The w72 blocks used in 78-79 were a reintroduced 988 casting but many say not to build later blocks due to their weakness.  Can anyone clear me up on this?  Did these blocks avoid the whole weight savings program?

I don't know who gave you the information, but either they don't know enough or they didn't tell you enough.  Like most enduring myths, there is a grain of truth to what you've been told.  But the picture is totally different once you hear "the rest of the story".

The original casting number for the early 400 CID Pontiac blocks was the 481988 number John mentioned above.  It is a very strong casting and it has been successfully used for many high-power and stroker builds without any block problems at all.

In 1973 the United States had a little problem with foreign relations, and in response the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) got all pissed off, so they got together and decided to cut back on how much oil they would ship.  This action precipitated the 73-74 "Oil Crises".  You're probably too young to remember that, but basically people panicked and suddenly gas stations started running out of gasoline.  There were long lines at ALL gas stations, not to mention which caused gas prices to shoot through the roof.  People got a little pissed off by that, and in response the government imposed the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) regulations and they empowered the EPA to rate ALL new cars for the MPG rankings.

Suddenly FUEL ECONOMY became the #1 issue in new car sales.  Performance got dumped like a load of 3 day old fish.  Everybody knows that weight is a prime penalizer for automotive fuel economy, so Detroit sent all the designers notices to reduce weight wherever possible.

Pontiac was no exception.  The engineers in the drive train division looked at their engines, and decided that they could shave a few pounds out of the 400 block by redesigning it with thinner internal webs.  The result of this was the 500557 block.  It IS weaker than the 481988 block, but it's plenty strong for most street applications.  In particular, it was WAY stronger than the factory needed for the 185 HP engine they were putting out in 75-76.

So... during the 1975 model year, Pontiac switched to the 500557 casting.  They stuck with it through the end of the 76 model year.  But as car production moved into the 77 model year, the painful memories of the gas lines of early 1974 faded.  Pontiac had a few production problems with assembly of the 500557 block engines, and they wanted to emphasize performance a bit more with introduction of the higher-HP option package.  Rather than sink the cost of engineering yet another revision to the 500557 block, they decided to simply revert to the 481988 block.

The use of the more robust block continued through the end of the Pontiac 400 CID engine production, during the 1978 model year.  A set number of the 400 engines were stockpiled for the 79 model year, and then all the tooling was ditched because that was the end of the Pontiac 400, per corporate edict.  The Olds 403 was use for the "big engine" production once the 400 engines were gone (all 400s were 4 speed, all 403s were autos), and for 1980 there were no more "big engines".

A 500557 block is fine for almost any streetable 400 engine you'd want to build, right up to 450-500 HP, and with RPMs under 5,000.  It's not the BEST candidate for a stroker engine or a drag engine that's going to see 6,000+ RPM -- the 481988 block is much better for that.  But given a choice, most people opt for the 481988 block if they can find one for the same or approximately the same money.

That's the entire ugly story... warts and all.

Offline jonathonar89

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Re: 78 w72 400 or?
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2010, 02:38:19 PM »
Thanks for clearing that up for me Rick.  I'm sure that there are other people who had the same question as I or possibly could have used the info.  My factory 988 block in my '79 T/A tossed the #5 rod bearing and I have a good 557 engine out of '78 bonneville that I think I will just swap in for the time being until I can afford doing the buildup on my original block.

Jon