Hitman's Pontiac Trans Am Forum
Trans Am Information => Trans Am Tech => Electrical => Topic started by: Schroeder on November 29, 2012, 04:26:55 PM
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Well guys I am going to be purchasing an aftermarket CD player for my 77 TA very soon along with some speakers. Since my car was missing all but the front in dash speaker I am unsure what I need, where things plug in, and what dimensions I should go with. Here are a list of questions:
1. What CD players are options for me? Do any modifications to the dash besides cutting a wider hole for the player in the dash face need to be made?
2. what harness adapters will I need for this and where can I get them?
3. What speakers work for the front in dash speaker? Do I need adapters to go from the wiring harness to the new speaker I may buy?
4. Was there only one speaker in the center of the dash of these cars from the factory or were there more? If so, where because there are no other speakers in my car. I have seen guys have them sticking out of their package trays, but these always look like custom jobs to me. I want aftermarket speakers with a factory look.
5. Was there an antenna on these cars? Mine doesn't have one!! I have seen these TA's with antennas but they may have been 78s and it seems there are so many variations that I don't know what I have and don't have.
I have done some digging. The manual provided by 78ta.com does not show me what I want, so I thought i'd ask you knowledgeable folks. Thanks for the help guys.
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If your dash is uncut where the stereo mounts, what ever you do, DO NOT CUT IT!!!! If you have an uncut dash, contact Randy and get one of his center console map pocket adapters, here's a link to the thread: http://www.78ta.com/HTAF/index.php?topic=37692.0 If your dash radio area is already cut up, you can pickup a generic plate for 1 DIN that has a 3/4" border around it, then cut the shape of your dash opening around the plate, that's what I did for my dash since it was already cut up.
Wiring concerned, you have speaker wiring, power wires, power antenna wire and the antenna. You shouldn't have to worry about the antenna it should plug right in. You may need an extension for it though.
Speaker wiring concerned, if you had a 78' or newer, you could use the existing wiring if it's already wired for rear stereo speakers. 77 and older though, you need to run new speaker wire. The older cars were designed with the speakers grounded to the chassis, and I think the gauge wire was designed for 10 ohm speakers, either is reason enough not to use the wiring. What ever you do, keep the old wiring in tact, just don't use it. The gauge of the wire will be determined by your receiver/speaker combination. Who ever you buy your speakers/receiver from should tell you what gauge wire is recommended. If you're staying under 50 watts per speaker though, most likely 16 gauge speaker wire will do the job.
The factory ran the rear speaker wire down the passenger side under the sill plate (plate under door), then up and around under the 1/4 side panel to the trunk. I would use the same route. One tip, make sure your left and right speaker wires are the same length. Don't be tempted to make the right speaker wire shorter since it doesn't have to run as far.
Someone else can chime in, but someone sells a center speaker adapter that lets you mount two 3.5" speakers in the center speaker location. That's ideal since it prevents you from hacking up door/kick panels and the center console. I think I've seen the adapter in the popular catalogs, Fbodywarehouse may sell them too.
As for the power and antenna wiring, you need to find a "wire harness adapter", that uses the existing radio harness that plugs into your stock radio to splice into an aftermarket receiver's harness. You will want to do this to prevent cutting up wires under your dash. If you can't find a harness adapter for your year, then I would recommend running new wiring from your fuse box to your new CD player to avoid cutting up wires. The speaker wires from the stock harness will not be used since you'll be running your own speaker wires.
If you tap into existing wires under the dash, red wire with black stripe will have power when car is in "run" mode, and orange is what you want for the radio's "clock". Again, I would run a separate wire from the fuse box to the radio for the main receiver power, and maybe even add a fuse inline too.
Some finishing touches would be to add baffles behind your rear 6 x 9 speakers, both to protect your speakers in the trunk and to add a little more base to them. Here's a link to the baffles I used: http://www.amazon.com/DEI-050380-Boom-Speaker-Baffle/dp/B0039Z3T4C/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1354290289&sr=8-2&keywords=6+x+9+baffle+speaker
Oh and www.crutchfield.com is your friend. Even if you don't buy the speaker/receiver from them, there's no other better source for car audio in my opinion.
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I just replied with general info, didn't quite answer your questions.
1. Single DIN receiver
2. Pre-78 hopefully someone can chime in where to buy one if they exist
3. There's a center speaker adapter to use 3.5" speakers in the front in place of the mono speaker. Someone else can chime in where to get one.
4. Pre-78 I believe there was either a mono speaker or 2 rear speakers. Someone else can chime in. 78/79 had rear speakers and 80/81 had 2 front and 2 rear speakers.
5. Most have an antenna built into the front windshield. If your car has a working radio, it definite has an antenna somewhere.
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My 74 has the front windshield built-in antenna, you can see the line in the glass. Behind the radio will be the connector plug, when you see it you'll know, its bigger guage than power or speaker wires. I ran my speaker wires down the hump as I had the carpet and insulation removed to replace. Factory run is like the other guy said. I also ran wires for a subwoofer (if I ever get one).
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Some of this might repeat what's been said, but might be something new too.
1. What CD players are options for me? Do any modifications to the dash besides cutting a wider hole for the player in the dash face need to be made?
Any modern radio with CD will do. As Angelo said, they are single DIN. DIN is a standard size for the hole it fits in to. The radio will often come with a paper template to help in cutting the size hole you need. They come with a metal cage that fits in the dash first, and that's what will hold and secure the radio. So, you can just make the hole the size of the forward edge of the cage. I prefer doing that rather than using the template, since the cage has to fit the hole...might as well use it as a guide to cut the hole.
I suggest getting a radio that also has a USB port on it. That way you can copy your music from your computer to a flash drive and plug it in and play. One little thumbsize flashdrive can hold hundreds of songs and more, depending on how many gigs the flash drive is. It should also have an auxillary port that you can plug an Ipod or other MP3 music player into, if you have one of those.
There are many good brands with those features. Pioneer, Alpine, Kenwood, etc. A good website to see many brands of radios in one place is Crutchfield.com . You can see pictures of them and the list of features. You don't have to buy there. Just a good place to see what you like and buy it anywhere you wish. Here's a link to their car radios page: http://www.crutchfield.com/g_300/Car-Receivers.html?tp=5684
2. what harness adapters will I need for this and where can I get them?
You don't really need harness adapters. It's easy to wire up what you need to in order to make everything work. Just follow the wiring diagrams they provide.
3. What speakers work for the front in dash speaker? Do I need adapters to go from the wiring harness to the new speaker I may buy?
No, you don't need wiring adapters. The speakers come with wires, the radio comes with wires. Just connect them together following the diagrams they provide.
4. Was there only one speaker in the center of the dash of these cars from the factory or were there more? If so, where because there are no other speakers in my car. I have seen guys have them sticking out of their package trays, but these always look like custom jobs to me. I want aftermarket speakers with a factory look.
Yes, one speaker in the center of the dash in your 77. There are places that have replacement speakers. Here's a good suggestion for the front one: http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=48771.0 . For the rears, you could find a pair of original factory metal rear speaker grilles on eBay, and hang 2 6X9's under the rear package tray and it will look oriignal. Just have to be careful to buy speakers that don't have the center tweeters sticking up so high so they would hit the speaker grilles.
5. Was there an antenna on these cars? Mine doesn't have one!! I have seen these TA's with antennas but they may have been 78s and it seems there are so many variations that I don't know what I have and don't have.
Most TA's have the antenna in the windshield. It is the wires that are embedded in the center of the windshield. There would be an antenna cable already under the dash to plug into the back of your radio. Most of the TA's I've seen with fender mounted antennas were the Tenth Anniversary TA's. The TATA's seems to always have them. Frankly, I don't like the fender antennas. Rather have the windshield one.
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The harness adapter I was referring to is used to plug into the existing harness so you don't cut up factory wiring. They are less than $10 for 1978+ years, they are for a GM standardized harness. I am not sure if they even exist for the older cars. Just don't cut factory wiring if at all possible.
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That would be fine. But you wouldn't have to buy an adapter, so could save a little money. The wiring is so simple that factory wiring doesn't have to be cut to connect up the couple of wires it takes to power the radio. Just connect a wire to a keyed source and one to a constant source. It's easy to put a couple of wire terminals on the wires so they can plug onto the power sources, like the fuse panel, or the original radio connector plug.
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I see, in my 81 the wires are already there including speakers so the harness let's you use the existing wires without cutting them, didn't know if something like that even exists pre 1978.
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WOW! Thanks guys! That's a lot of help and information to digest! I appreciate it all.
Could anyone show me their rear speaker setups? Angelo, it sounds like yours are concealed and mounted well. Do you have any pictures?
Also, I have done numerous searches on here, other TA sites, and on google. I can NOT seem to find any pictures of these in-windshield antennas. Can anyone show me a picture of theirs and maybe where it snakes down into the car at? I have never noticed any windshield antenna on my car. It's hard for me to be able to figure stuff out when it comes to these topics because this is my first 2nd gen and it is highly mutilated. There is a lot of stuff missing and a lot of stuff done incorrectly. I have no "correct" baseline to compare stuff to.
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my cars at the other house, but it should be a thin vertical line in the center of the windshield running from dash to mirror area
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my cars at the other house, but it should be a thin vertical line in the center of the windshield running from dash to mirror area
embedded in the glass?? Anyone got pics they could post? I'm guessing this means I do not have an antenna and will need a new windshield now too -_-
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My car is apart at the moment, so I don't have pictures if it together.
The windshield antenna is hard to see, unless someone told you where to look you would never notice it. From the inside of your car, look at the very center of your windshield up close, then look up/down from the center, you should see two brown or gold parallel wires running vertically. When it reaches the top of the windshield, each wire turns toward the outside of the car and runs most of the length of the upper windshield.
If your dash is apart, somewhere in between your defrost duct you should see a black thick wire with a chrome tip, that's your antenna plug.
Check your front fenders, if you have a hole just behind the front wheel-well on one side, then you most likely had a power antenna at one time.
You can just see the wires in this ebay listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/70-81-CAMARO-FIREBIRD-FRONT-WINDSHIELD-ANTENNA-NO-CRACKS-/251176771980?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item3a7b4d618c
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Yes, that eBay listing shows them pretty good, especially if you enlarge the pics. It's those 2 thin vertical lines in the middle of the windshield.
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definitely see the antenna in the pics. I can't believe I've never noticed that. I can't wait to get back home on Friday and see if my car has it. I pray it does! Thanks for the help thus far guys.
Angelo, are your speakers in the car? So, your rear speakers face up through your package tray correct? Can you see them or are they under the tray?
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I haven't installed them yet but I did a test fit. Plan is to mount them from underneath with the grills they came with on top. So thinking of layers, top to bottom first is the speaker grill, then the package tray, then the actual car steel, followed by the speaker then the speaker baffle. I hangs figured out how to attach the baffles yet.
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Angelo replied and gave a good answer, but I already wrote this, so here it is :) .
I can tell you the rear speakers are mounted from underneath the package tray metal panel, with the grilles on top. The original grilles have threaded studs that go through holes in the package tray panel, the speakers are put up over the studs, and nuts installed to hold them. Aftermarket speakers can be installed the same way with the original grilles, if the centers of the speakers aren't so tall that they hit the grilles. If you use the aftermarket grilles that come with the speakers, they come with long screws that go through the speaker grilles and hang down under the panel, where you hang the speakers on them with some nuts. Here's a pic of an original car:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v159/67SS427/79tabluecamelcc.jpg)
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So I don't think my car has the in glass antenna. Can I put an antenna in the trunk or something? I don't really want to replace the windshield and I don't wanna cut my fenders up or anything. Anyone have any ideas?
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You could use a hidden antenna. I put something like this in the fairing of my motorcycle. It's amplified and designed to be hidden. I am probably going to use this on my car since I need to replace the windshield and probably won't go back to the antenna in the windshield.
http://www.google.com/shopping/product/15748798227056802684?q=hidden%20antenna&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bpcl=39468505&biw=1045&bih=459&sa=X&ei=41W_UN3TNIXe2AXy4IHIAg&ved=0CIMBEPMCMAI#ps-sellers
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Elz beat me to it.
For when you don't have or don't want an exterior antenna, you can buy an antenna that you place inside the car where it can receive a signal, like on the package tray. It's about the size of a candy bar. I've used them and they work fine. Here's an expample:
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_12044UA20/Universal-Antenna.html?tp=3449&kw=&org=pla&nw=g&crv=15802862185
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Any FM antenna under metal is not going to be very effective. AM will be a complete loss, it would be like being under a bridge all the time. If you can hide it under glass/plastic it may be more effective though. Under the package tray would work, that may work better than the factory windshield actually.
If the car has/had a working radio chances are there's an antenna in the windshield (if there's no hole in the fender).
By the way, I got new front windshield for my car for $180 installed in my garage. It's a lot of money but if it's old glass and/or if you want to repaint your dash while the glass is out, that's an inexpensive upgrade. If your car wasn't wired for a windshield antenna, you will still have a problem getting the antenna routed into your car. So if your car doesn't have an antenna windshield, check the outside bottom center of your windshield for a lead, should be on/under your cowl to plug a windshield antenna into. If no lead, that Crutchfield bar is your best option.
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Like Angelo said, it would be interesting to look for an antenna lead on your cowl, just to see if you have one. It's where the antenna from the windshield would plug into, if you had a windshield antenna. It's in the center of your cowl, just below the center of your windshield. You have to remove the plastic screen to check for it. Here's a good thread with pics that shows its location and what it looks like: http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=54709.0
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Are you sure you want a CD player? As we speak, I am having the original stereo in my car modified to accept Ipod/mp3. No cutting needed. Better Tech/More convenient?
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73Formula has a point. I was looking at some head units last month that are considered non-mech (non mechanical), they have units with bluetooth so you can connect your phone/tablet and play music through it that way, AUX input jack is a popular option, and some even have USB/SD/MicroSD slots on them. The factory radio with an input jack is the best way to go if your dash is uncut, kind of a "sleeper" radio.
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I like the look of an original radio and the idea of adding an aux jack installed to allow use of an mp3 player, if you want to keep the original look. Only problem is that an original radio still won't have the power and sound quality of a modern radio, and the speakers aren't as good as what you can use with the modern radio.
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The radios can be modified for this also. I will ask what all is being done to mine and post tomorrow
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Any FM antenna under metal is not going to be very effective. AM will be a complete loss, it would be like being under a bridge all the time. If you can hide it under glass/plastic it may be more effective though. Under the package tray would work, that may work better than the factory windshield actually.
If the car has/had a working radio chances are there's an antenna in the windshield (if there's no hole in the fender).
By the way, I got new front windshield for my car for $180 installed in my garage. It's a lot of money but if it's old glass and/or if you want to repaint your dash while the glass is out, that's an inexpensive upgrade. If your car wasn't wired for a windshield antenna, you will still have a problem getting the antenna routed into your car. So if your car doesn't have an antenna windshield, check the outside bottom center of your windshield for a lead, should be on/under your cowl to plug a windshield antenna into. If no lead, that Crutchfield bar is your best option.
I would like to paint the front half of my dash, speaking of which is it supposed to be a dull matte black on black interior cars? Mine seems awful dull like it was painted with some crap spraybomb.
Elz beat me to it.
For when you don't have or don't want an exterior antenna, you can buy an antenna that you place inside the car where it can receive a signal, like on the package tray. It's about the size of a candy bar. I've used them and they work fine. Here's an expample:
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_12044UA20/Universal-Antenna.html?tp=3449&kw=&org=pla&nw=g&crv=15802862185
Elz and Grand, I like this option. I could lay the thing on my package tray and I don't think it'd bother me.
Are you sure you want a CD player? As we speak, I am having the original stereo in my car modified to accept Ipod/mp3. No cutting needed. Better Tech/More convenient?
73, I LOVE this option, but I do not want to sacrifice sound quality. This also sounds expensive. If you could make sure to post back like you said with all the gory details I would appreciate it. I'm assuming you are having this done at a car radio installation place? Or did you take it to even a more specialized business to handle the modifications?
GREAT posts guys, thanks to all of you. GREAT information and an ABUNDANCE of it!!
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I live in Miami, ta specialties does all the work on my car. I am getting it back on Monday. I BELIEVE that to modify the stereo, plus the speakers and amp was around 600 in parts. I know that they send the radio out somewhere to the Midwest. Will let you know specifics in a few days.
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I live in Miami, ta specialties does all the work on my car. I am getting it back on Monday. I BELIEVE that to modify the stereo, plus the speakers and amp was around 600 in parts. I know that they send the radio out somewhere to the Midwest. Will let you know specifics in a few days.
Yes, please do. I might send my radio to the same place. I am not spending $600 though. What was the radio mod costs without the speakers and such?
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As for the metal portion of the dash, I read somewhere that GM used a flat paint color that matched the interior color. The flat color was to prevent any sun from reflecting from it. When I had my glass out of the car I painted mine with SEM Landau black followed by some SEM Low Luster Clear, I had no rust to deal with so I just scuffed the surface with gray 3m scuff pads (I think that's ultra fine), cleaned with paint thinner, then laid a lot of very light thin coats 7 minutes apart, with 2 medium coats of the clear on top. It came out great as you can see in the pics on my blog: http://www.modsandrods.tv/2012/11/05/project-trans-am-month-30-interior-and-wiring/ The window certainly has to come out to paint it right, there's a good 3-4" of dash that's angled with the glass that you otherwise would not be able to reach if the window remained in the car.
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Hey guys haven't forgotten about this thread. Some personnel has been out sick at my shop. Should get car back tomorrow's. Will post all details then.
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Got car back - sounds awesome. The radio was 155$ - I believe it was repaired and the MP3 plug was added. FYI my radio system did not work at all before the installment. The amp was 270, and the speakers were 125. The down side is because of the old radio, adjustment can be an issue. However, there is slight adjustment through the amp. BTW- the sound is crystal clear. There was also some other little charges (around 15 bux) for cables and sech. I had the 8-track removed and a console map pocket installed- I control the system through the map pocket
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http://www.crutchfield.com/p_070XDM6510/Dual-XDMA6510.html?tp=5684#details-tab
What do you guys think about that receiver and the 1 dual front speakers that someone posted in here?
Also looking at this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170974061032?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
6x9's for the rear are iffy. I'll pry have to get them in person so I know the tweeters don't stick out past the package tray.
EDIT: After doing a little research and actually looking at some radios at the place in town here I think I'm gonna go with this radio. Sounds like it packs a punch for the money it costs.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alpine-CDE-121-USB-CD-MP3-Dash-Receiver-/181060473550?pt=Car_Audio_In_Dash_Receivers&hash=item2a280b92ce
I'll pry get a used one off ebay. It's TOO EASY to drop a lot of money in audio stuff. I'll get new speakers though of course.
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If you wish to keep the original radio & look a good solution would be to add a hard wired AUX input to the original radio, install a power amp and new speakers and you'll keep the original look with a much improved sound system that can be customized as you wish. Even add a sub-woofer.
Check out Crutchfield.com they have a nice selection of audio components. They carry the Sound Ordnance P-69 6X9 that fit nicely with the standard TA grilles.
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_777P69/Sound-Ordnance-P-69.html?tp=105 (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_777P69/Sound-Ordnance-P-69.html?tp=105)
We can add the Aux input for iPod, MP3, XM radio etc.. to the original Delco radios.
If anyone is interested visit our http://www.transamradio.com (http://www.transamradio.com) page.
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You have me wondering.... if you connect an external amp to the original radio, do the speakers then run from the amp? And if so, will the amp make it so you can use modern 4 ohm speakers, even though the original radio used 10 ohm speakers?
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You have me wondering.... if you connect an external amp to the original radio, do the speakers then run from the amp? And if so, will the amp make it so you can use modern 4 ohm speakers, even though the original radio used 10 ohm speakers?
Absolutely! As long as the new AMP has speaker level inputs feature, you can easily add it to your original radio. And yes the speakers will be powered by the new amp AND can be any impedance and power rating that the new amp will handle.
Andrew
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That's good to know. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
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Wow thanks a lot TTAPace. PM me a price to have the AUX port added. I do think I am going to go with that Alpine I listed in my last post though. It seems there are so many options for everything involved in this car. I have to do so much research to make a little progress!
Is everyone in agreement that the dual speaker mentioned in this thread: http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=48771.0 is the best option for replacement of the front speaker? What about retro fitting a 5" speaker on the factory bracket or something like that?
I'm considering one of the following two hidden antennas to run to my rear window or package tray.
1.) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hot-Rod-Car-Auto-DUAL-AMPLIFIED-AM-FM-Hidden-Antenna-/150977259274?pt=US_Radio_Antennas&hash=item2326f2270a
2.) http://www.ebay.com/itm/METRA-44-UA20-HIDDEN-ELECTRONIC-AMPLIFIED-CAR-ANTENNA-/150960941070?pt=US_Radio_Antennas&hash=item2325f9280e&vxp=mtr
I'm still looking in to 6x9's. The car audio store has some alpine speakers on sale right now for $33. I think the tweeter is almost flush too. I may just pick those up.
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It sounds like you made your choice already, but I figured I would show you what I did with mine. My dash is prestine except for the fact that some one cut the dash for an newer stereo :-[.
I have this reciever in my 76 in the stock radio location and love it. It is loaded with features and sounds crystal clear. The usb port is the reason I chose it. Also, now it is $30 cheaper with free shipping from crutchfield.
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_113KDCX395/Kenwood-Excelon-KDC-X395.html?tp=5684
I also have these 6x9 in the rear. I am very biast to polk and these make my sytem thump; in addition they are certified for marine use and I see this as more protection.
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_107DXI690/Polk-Audio-DXi690.html?tp=91
Up front, I had the stock mono 4x10 speaker. I gutted the original dry rotted speaker, modifed the out metal support to house to 4 inch speakers. I did do some welding so the new 2 speaker unit fits as the original did. I found the 4 inch speakers to be biggest you could go. They fit just fit with out having to do any modifications to the duct work.
I used pioneers similar to these-
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130TSD1002/Pioneer-TS-D1002R.html
I also prewired for an amplifier when I removed the interior. I have the REM deluxe package tray with speaker accomidations. Here is a picture of what it looks like. Makes the speakers practically invisible and i had no clearance issues what so ever. I also bought the 6x9 foam speaker bottom covers which really keep the sound out of the trunk and in the interior. Since my car did not have speaker grills from the factory, I chose this option and like it alot.
(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z340/greenbird76/1976%20Firebird%20Esprit%20Commplete%20Restoration/P1010283.jpg)
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Are you talking about this REM place greenbird?
http://www.remautoinc.com/products.php
I can't even look at their products. How did you know what they had available? Did you happen to get it from Ames? Ames part FA603 or FA604?
Thanks for the input! I'm not sure if I'll get those same speakers, but now I have some dimensions to go off. GREAT info greenbird! Thanks for chiming in.
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I bought mine from Classsic Industries. Classic's catalog had a good picture of it and good sources online recoomended it. I think it was some one from AGTA. Anyways, I am glad I could help you out. If you need me to look up the Classic Part # Just let me know. 8)
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I'm still trying to decide if I want to cut holes in my existing package tray, fit speakers, and then cover with speaker grills from a 78 or 79, or if I want to go your route greenbird. If I can find some cheap grilles I may retro-fit what I have now. Your package tray is sexy though, and I may end up going that route.
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Here is what I did radio and speakers in my car sounds good.
http://www.78ta.com/HTAF/index.php?topic=6244.90
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Can anyone get me a link to a harness adaptor that I can plug into the back of my modern day radio and right into a 78ta harness? I just purchased a new under dash harness and it is a 78 one. Ames said it would fit fine in my car. Any extra options that the 78 harness has I will just let empty.
At one point I found a topic about this and the guy had links and pics and everything. I can not find this topic anymore.
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Aftermarket radio's have proprietary harnesses that plug into the back of then. The old days we would hack up the factory harness and use twist caps to connect the appropriate wires. The past 10-20 years the trend is to use a special pigtail harness to bridge that gap between the factory harness and the proprietary harness from the back of a modern receiver.
Search eBay or Amazon for Scosche GM01B, it's a harness for 1978 -1987 General Motors Radios. It will come with two pigtails, the smaller one does not apply, it taps into a separate factory harness that provides power for the clock, which 78-79 was not wired for. I'm going to guess that this may be what you got from Ames as well, if you have the Ames part number that tell us what harness it is.
You also need the proprietary pigtail harness that plugs into your aftermarket receiver. If you purchased your receiver new, it will be in the box. It should have instructions what wire goes to what speaker, power, etc...
I still use twist caps for these application specifically, but more and more I see folks either solder or use butt connecters, which would be an improvement.
I will be wiring up mine in a couple weeks and can take some pictures if that help.
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Can anyone get me a link to a harness adaptor that I can plug into the back of my modern day radio and right into a 78ta harness? I just purchased a new under dash harness and it is a 78 one. Ames said it would fit fine in my car. Any extra options that the 78 harness has I will just let empty.
At one point I found a topic about this and the guy had links and pics and everything. I can not find this topic anymore.
Try Crutchfield they used to have them.
www.crutchfield.com
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Aftermarket radio's have proprietary harnesses that plug into the back of then. The old days we would hack up the factory harness and use twist caps to connect the appropriate wires. The past 10-20 years the trend is to use a special pigtail harness to bridge that gap between the factory harness and the proprietary harness from the back of a modern receiver.
Search eBay or Amazon for Scosche GM01B, it's a harness for 1978 -1987 General Motors Radios. It will come with two pigtails, the smaller one does not apply, it taps into a separate factory harness that provides power for the clock, which 78-79 was not wired for. I'm going to guess that this may be what you got from Ames as well, if you have the Ames part number that tell us what harness it is.
You also need the proprietary pigtail harness that plugs into your aftermarket receiver. If you purchased your receiver new, it will be in the box. It should have instructions what wire goes to what speaker, power, etc...
I still use twist caps for these application specifically, but more and more I see folks either solder or use butt connecters, which would be an improvement.
I will be wiring up mine in a couple weeks and can take some pictures if that help.
THANK YOU ANGELO! THAT'S what I was looking for. I know that I simply connect the open ends from the scosche part to the open ends on the back of my receiver. I have done a few radios. I just needed to locate the adapter that plugs into the under dash harness. THANKS!
btw, I did not get anything from Ames. I just called to confirm that a 78 harness would mount into my 77 and match up with everything. They said it would. Any extra crap such as some heater indicator switch can just be left hanging open on the harness.
I had to get a new harness and decided to go with a 78 because I knew I could get one of these adapters and plug it straight into the harness. They do not make these plugs for anything older than 78 I guess :-/
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just a heads up, the under dash harness will only give you 4 of the 12 connections (the power, ground, power antenna). There are 2 more factory harnesses for the speakers (I think they are white and blue), I personally would just use your own speaker wire than buy a factory set, especially if you don't have an 80/81 dash the front speaker wire harness will not help you either.
Just to throw a wrench into this, you can get a reverse harness set as well, I got one just to restore the factory harness, guy who had my car previously cut up the factory harness. You could use the parts to the reverse harness set just for the speakers, to use your own speaker wires.
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http://metraonline.com/part/72-4500
That's the Metra speaker harness adaptor so you don't have to cut the ends off the wires. Also, they will be correct as far as + and -. If you already hacked them off, light colored wires in the front is +. Darker colored wires are + in the rear. You can also grab 12v battery from the cig. lighter since you are close to it anyways or run a wire to the fusebox.
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(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b86/ponchonutty/EBAY/2012-07-02_13-35-16_78.jpg)
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b86/ponchonutty/EBAY/2012-07-02_13-35-56_767.jpg)
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I bought my harness from Walmart.
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Here are pics of the speaker harnesses, tied to my receiver harness. The SMP pigtails are available from RockAuto, there are cheaper versions of these on ebay, I think the SMP versions are a little better quality as far as the harness themselves.
(http://modsandrods.tv/wp-content/pics/sm/Photo-2013-02-02-06.07.30-PM.jpg)
How the reverse harnesses plug into the scosche harness
(http://modsandrods.tv/wp-content/pics/sm/Photo-2013-02-02-06.07.18-PM.jpg)
I got Rockford Fosgate 6x9 speakers for the rear, I'm using their provided grills. I bought #6 - 32 screws 2" in length for the speakers, it gave me plenty of length after mounting the speakers under the package tray to then install the baffles I bought followed by another washer and nut. I pre-poked the holes in the baffles using the speaker grill before installing. The nuts holding the baffles under the speakers are finger tight. The nuts holding the speaker from underneath were tightened with a nut driver.
(http://modsandrods.tv/wp-content/pics/sm/2013-02-03-speaker-baffle.jpg) (http://modsandrods.tv/wp-content/pics/sm/2013-02-01-rear-speakers.jpg)
Hope this helps folks.
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I did the same thing as Angelo did, using the same baffles and the long screws. However, I flush mounted the speakers to the package tray mounting metal inside my trunk and did not have to use speaker grills due to the design of the REM deluxe tray. (Actually I goofed and installed the new package tray first and had to do every thing from inside the trunk without drilling through the new tray- it stunk!! ::))
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Nice! You could most likely use #8 screws instead of #6 then, I had to use #6 as the heads of the screws just fit in the Rockford Fosgate grills. My package tray was already cut by the previous owner for speakers, and I kind of like the RF grills, they don't look like a rocket ship or toy like some of those other brand speaker grills.
Those baffles are easy to work with too, if you leave enough screw stud you can always add them later.
I also used 84-89 Ford speaker harnesses and reverse harnesses so I could easily plug/unplug the rear speakers. No one sells GM reverse speaker harnesses :(. Makes it easier to get the speaker in/out without plugging the wire connectors directly on the speakers.
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I bought the exact fit one Angelo, I know right about 1980 everything was becoming available. Lots of stuff from Metra and Scoshe as GoldTA said some are even available at Walmart! I personally replaced all the speaker wire, because of age and quality of wiring. BTW Angelo did you get those Blinker Greens Handled? PM Me I don't want to thread Jack!
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I should have replaced the wiring, but it looked fine so I just added harnesses where the previous owner hacked it up. I tested the stereo over the weekend, sounds awesome, so I'm not worried about the wiring. I'm more concerned about my soldering than the 35 year old wire.
I got video testing out the stereo on my Google Drive, if you wanna see it PM me your Gmail address, I'll share it out.
I'm getting the whole bezel redone now, will keep you posted. Thanks!
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Cool Beans! ;)
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Looks good. FYI those SMP pigtails use to be made by Metra. They've changed to a newer design that has all pigtails put together and costs about half the price and still works with OEM radios.
http://metraonline.com/part/71-1677-1
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Looks good. FYI those SMP pigtails use to be made by Metra. They've changed to a newer design that has all pigtails put together and costs about half the price and still works with OEM radios.
http://metraonline.com/part/71-1677-1
I saw that pigtail but thought there was benefit in being able to split all the pig tails up because some of the wires kinds come from different areas in the car and harness. I thought the separate tails might be better.
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Schroeder, GM thought the same thing, it does make it easier if you have to take one of the harnesses out.
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Schroeder, GM thought the same thing, it does make it easier if you have to take one of the harnesses out.
Turns out that the people on ebay sent me the single pigtail instead of the three separate ones that you and I discussed and what were pictured -_- I don't think I'm gonna raise to much grief because I want to get this stuff all in, but I was upset. I was looking at these pig tails....do I have to piggy back the ignition wire off the ignition harness somehow? Is there a guide for dummies on the hooking up the harness out of the receiver? ^_^;
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You shouldn't have to do that with the ignition wire but will for the 12v memory or constant you will. You can do either thing.....run a wire to the fuseblock and you can use a female spade to connect to one of the open male spade terminals on the fuse block. The other is to piggy off of the cig. lighter circuit. It will be either an orange or orange/black wire.
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You shouldn't have to do that with the ignition wire but will for the 12v memory or constant you will. You can do either thing.....run a wire to the fuseblock and you can use a female spade to connect to one of the open male spade terminals on the fuse block. The other is to piggy off of the cig. lighter circuit. It will be either an orange or orange/black wire.
I know you have said something several times about that cig lighter poncho. I would like to run a wire to the fusebox instead of hacking my cig wire up, but I'll have to investigate more before I do that. Do I simiply identify the 12v power wire in the fusebox from a wiring diagram and hook onto that? I am probably going to be getting to this this weekend, so this is all valuable information. Where should the "12 v ignition" wire go then into my factory harness? Do I leave it disconnected? I was guessing that this wire was to be hooked into the ignition somehow so you can listen to the radio with the keys turned to acc and the car not running. This hook up process would be very self explanatory on a new vehicle, but there is some thinking to be done on these old cars!
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No. Don't over think it. The basics are the same with an old car radio to a newer one. ONLY DIFFERECE IS THE 12V CONSTANT!!!! Most pre-79 radios in most cars were analog tuner you know the dial and needle you see going from side to side when you go to change the stations. Those radios do not have to have a 12v constant because there isn't any memory. ANY radio with a digital display will need to have a 12v memory wire regardless if it has a built in clock. If not, every time you turn it on it will go to the default 88.1 station and will not retain your presets.
The ignition wire that's in there now from the old radio is what you will use for the "turn on" feed. You shouldn't have to go to the fuse panel for that unless all your original wiring is gone.
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Check that the 12 volt constant wire from your receiver is 18 or 20 gauge before you do this.
The problem is many new receivers use the battery (12 volt constant) as the primary power to the unit. My 52W x 4 receiver uses a 14 gauge yellow wire for this, which is misleading for our cars, as the yellow wire in the factory wiring is for when the key is in any position other than off (which is not hot all the time). I believe the wire going into the cigarette lighter is 18 gauge, I would not spice a device that pulls more current into that wire. Rule of thumb, only splice into wires that are thicker (lower gauge) if not the same size/gauge as the wire that needs the tap.
I've seen other receivers use 18 gauge wire for the 12 volt constant (battery), if that's the case then it is safe to splice into the cigarette lighter.
I suspect receivers pull a majority of their power from the battery rather than from IGN/ACC is for the features that work even when the key is off. I can eject a CD that's already in the receiver without the key in the ignition for example.
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Some receivers have a fuse in the back as well, if it does and it's 15 amp or lower, then it should be safe to tap into the cigarette lighter wire.
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Angelo, you are sort of correct. All the radios that I have been selling lately (major brands such as Sony, Pioneer, JVC, ect) all have 10amp fuses. The internal amplifiers in newer, higher end radios are MOSFET style circuits. These normally only pull about 6 amps at full volume (depending on speaker setups). The kicker to all of this is that these NEVER output the stated power on a constant (RMS) basis. These statements are never regulated (which has always been a thorn in my butt) so any stereo maker can say their XXXX receiver can put out 1000000 watts. In theory they are correct. The way they get around this is that they don't state what the input power is. Higher end audio products normally state what the input and outputs are in RMS (constant output). It is normally stated somthing like...12v input 40watts x 4 @ 4ohms. Usually the numbers stated on the box are peak power. You could probably take a 45x4 stated stereo and actually get 80x4 peak out of them if you have 24v input. Not to ramble but the cig lighter constant wire should be ample for most stereos.
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I may have a special case, I'm reusing my old 2004 Aiwa receiver that has the 20 amp fuse and heavy gauge wire. Your right though if its 10 amp it should be fine using the cigarette lighter.
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Oh my. Yeah I use to sell those for a little while. MAKE SURE TO HAVE A GREAT GROUND AND NO POWER SPIKES. These radios are very touchy but weren't bad for a $70 radio back in the day.
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Angelo, you are sort of correct. All the radios that I have been selling lately (major brands such as Sony, Pioneer, JVC, ect) all have 10amp fuses. The internal amplifiers in newer, higher end radios are MOSFET style circuits. These normally only pull about 6 amps at full volume (depending on speaker setups). The kicker to all of this is that these NEVER output the stated power on a constant (RMS) basis. These statements are never regulated (which has always been a thorn in my butt) so any stereo maker can say their XXXX receiver can put out 1000000 watts. In theory they are correct. The way they get around this is that they don't state what the input power is. Higher end audio products normally state what the input and outputs are in RMS (constant output). It is normally stated somthing like...12v input 40watts x 4 @ 4ohms. Usually the numbers stated on the box are peak power. You could probably take a 45x4 stated stereo and actually get 80x4 peak out of them if you have 24v input. Not to ramble but the cig lighter constant wire should be ample for most stereos.
Check that the 12 volt constant wire from your receiver is 18 or 20 gauge before you do this.
The problem is many new receivers use the battery (12 volt constant) as the primary power to the unit. My 52W x 4 receiver uses a 14 gauge yellow wire for this, which is misleading for our cars, as the yellow wire in the factory wiring is for when the key is in any position other than off (which is not hot all the time). I believe the wire going into the cigarette lighter is 18 gauge, I would not spice a device that pulls more current into that wire. Rule of thumb, only splice into wires that are thicker (lower gauge) if not the same size/gauge as the wire that needs the tap.
I've seen other receivers use 18 gauge wire for the 12 volt constant (battery), if that's the case then it is safe to splice into the cigarette lighter.
I suspect receivers pull a majority of their power from the battery rather than from IGN/ACC is for the features that work even when the key is off. I can eject a CD that's already in the receiver without the key in the ignition for example.
Thanks a lot guys. You have both helped me very much. Here is some information on my receiver, what I have done, and what I plan to do. Please give me feedback on whether I am correct or not.
I have an Alpine CD121 I believe, and it has a 10A fuse in the back of it. I currently plan on tapping my red 12v ignition wire into the old yellow radio wire. I had wanted to piggyback off the cig lighter but I believe it to be 18gage wire and the yellow battery power cable coming off my receiver is about 12-14gage. Do I have to run to the fuse box then? I think I would be running the fuse box anyway if I better understood the process. Angelo has PM'ed me about the process, but I am still researching and making sure I can do it all right before I act.
Do I still need inline fuses if I go to the fusebox since the back of my radio has a 10A fuse?
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The 10 amp fuse will blow before the 18 gauge wire will become a danger. I would tap that into the cigarette lighter and call it a day.
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The 10 amp fuse will blow before the 18 gauge wire will become a danger. I would tap that into the cigarette lighter and call it a day.
I won't have to be replacing that fuse all the time will I? The 18g cig lighter wire won't be getting hot will it?
I guess I just wanna do it right, if that means going to the fuse box, I'll do it. Even if it means having to learn about it before doing it!
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No, you should be fine. Only remote possible issue is if you have the stereo cranked up on high while you push the cig. lighter in but I'd doubt it. I've had 3 birds with the dash cut for an aftermarket stereo. I've wired all 3 of them to the lighter with no problem.s
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Thanks a lot poncho. I still can't decide what to do! I'm not sure I want to chop into the stock harness. I do trust that I will be alright if I go this route though thanks to your testimony.
Are the ports I've boxed below the ports I could plug right into with my 16g receiver power wire if I do decide to wire right to the fuse box? If I do do this, would I put an inline 10A fuse (thats what's in the back of the receiver)? Or would it be some other sized fuse? Thanks guys
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If you use a wire tap your actually not causing that much damage to the existing wire.
Example wire tap http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Dorman-Conduct-Tite-4-pcs-T-tap-terminal/_/N-25oe?itemIdentifier=365910_0_0_
I've blown 4 fuses my entire life, three were caused by wiring my first stereo wrong in high school (the fuse did its job 3 times until I figured out what I did wrong), the other was in my wife's car using the CIG lighter to power a 200w inverter to run my laptop. As long as you wire everything correctly and know what can handle what you'll be OK.
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Yes. wire taps are great. I used them in my car for power to my radio, lighting for my after market gauges and power for my converter lock up power switch. They allow you to keep everything clean and neat by not having any unsightly electrical tape.
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Yup. I use those too but not the Dorman type. I like the 3m ones. 3m was the ones that have the patent on them and they seem to hold up better. I do remote car start installs on the road and 80% of the time I am outside doing the install. The Dorman ones get brittle in cold weather while the 3m ones stay together.
One even better is the Posi-loc system. Not really sure who makes them. I did a Bazooka install that had a custom harness for the car it was being installed in. It came with these connectors and I must say I was extremely impressed!!!!
http://www.webbikeworld.com/r2/posi-tap/posi-tap.htm
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So folks can use this for a reference, here's what the wire colors translate to under the dash:
Black - ground
Orange - battery (always hot)
Yellow - AAC/IGN (key in any position other than off)
Pink with black line (black tracer) - IGN (car running or key turned to start)
Gray - illumination (parking lights/headlights)
Angelo, I saw you started this topic. Is the original grey wire from my factory underdash harness left taped off or is it supposed to hook up to the orange illumination wire from the back of my receiver?
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it goes to the orange
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yep.
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Just remember you're not matching up colors, your matching up function.
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Just remember you're not matching up colors, your matching up function.
This is the number one thing to remember. The only time you get to match color to color is when you are using an adator harness that snaps into the factory harness. With that, you should have matching colors on the new radio's harness. The only time this doesn't happen is if you buy some $10 flea-market style radio. All other major branded radios share the industry standard color codes.
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Got my splicing done guys. I thought I'd take some pics to mainly show the AWESOME connectors I found at menards.
See the illumination (orange radio harness to grey factory harness) connector I used? All you do is push the wires in it. Bad thing is you can't pull them out. You have to throw the connector away at that point too.
(http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg588/Schroeder14/interior/IMGP5854_zpsd95276c3.jpg)
This connector is AWESOME. I used it to splice into the cig power wire. I will plug the yellow wire from the radio into one of the slots. The orange levers lift up so you can place and remove wires. I can also splice other things into it too.
(http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg588/Schroeder14/interior/IMGP5848_zpsbb05281c.jpg)
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I bought a window mount aftermarket universal car antenna. It requires a ground and a 12V DC power. The ground is a strap type and I will be mounting that to the chasis via a window trim screw. My question is should the 12v power line go to 12v constant or should it be through the ignition. I can't think of any reason the antenna should have power when the car is off so I currently have it tied into the ignition power line (car harness's yellow wire).
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To a Yellow wire is perfect.
Just remember, yellow gets power if the key is turned forward or backward (AAC/IGN). the Pink with black line (black tracer) gets power only when the key is forward (IGN). Since the radio works both ways, you want your antenna to work both ways.
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Angelo is correct. Now, if you are using an aftermarket radio and it has an amp output (blue/white normally) you can use that to trigger the antenna. Otherwise hook it to the accessory wire.
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Angelo is correct. Now, if you are using an aftermarket radio and it has an amp output (blue/white normally) you can use that to trigger the antenna. Otherwise hook it to the accessory wire.
I have that blue and white amp wire wired to the amp that's gonna be in my trunk for my subs. I think I'm just gonna leave the antenna on the yellow ignition power wire. Whats the benefit of putting it with the amp?
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No difference really
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No benefit like Ponch said, I just like my Audio Separate to eliminate any interference or power draws to things like amps.
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No benefit like Ponch said, I just like my Audio Separate to eliminate any interference or power draws to things like amps.
It sounds like you just listed 2 benefits. hah I guess I can put my antenna in with my amp then to eliminate the draws and such. I do not plan to actually have an amp at first. I used to have a nice set of subs and good amp, but I let it go with my 91 GTA. I really wish I had not done that now because I'd love to throw them in the back of this car.
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I wouldn't put this much thought Into it. If you install a seriously strong amp, it will not get its power from the receiver anyway, if anything you will have it power a relay.
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I am not totally technical Schroeder, but it will make for a nicer and more efficient install! Also I had a FI motor that I piggybacked to what I thought was a good hot lead and it ended up overheating and blowing a head gasket on one of my previous vehicles. So you can see why I am leary of that! :D
I have installed Stereo equipment for over 20 years, I am NO expert but try to learn from my mistakes! ::)
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Does it say how many amps the antenna draws? Or does it have its own fuse? I think it can't draw that much but you never know.
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Ya it is very hard to say on those antenna motors? Do a little research, I am sure you will be fine. Run the RCAs so you don't have to do it later and try to run them away from your power or ground so as to avoid interference or engine noise.
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Does it say how many amps the antenna draws? Or does it have its own fuse? I think it can't draw that much but you never know.
Usually less than 1 amp http://www.metraonline.com/part/44-UA20 Now, if you plan to add more things to the audio system that require a "turn on" lead then I would suggest using a standard smpt relay off of the amp turn on lead to accomplish this. Most car stereos do not like to have more than a few amps on the amp turn on lead.
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1 amp is nothing, I'd do what ponchonutty said and wire it to the blue/white wire from the receiver.
If you already soldered it to the yellow factory wiring, I would just leave it. Me thinks we're way over thinking this. :)
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Ya if you are using the same on off as the radio, I see NO problem there! ;D
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I'll take a look at it tomorrow when I get home. I may just leave it as is I suppose! I forget how I wired up my blue wire, but if it is easy to wire into it I guess I'll do that. Thanks guys. I'm going to being SEM'ing some interior parts this weekend. I hope to get it all done. Then I can start buttoning up the dash and such. I will get everything in place and things will start coming together. I'm getting excited. If I had a little more time I'm CERTAIN this thing would be on the road this year, but as it is I do NOT have a little more time. It is going to be close if I can get her out. Do you guys strongly recommend testing this radio setup before everything is buttoned up? I feel confident in my setup, so I have not tested it. I did not feel comfortable rigging it up to a battery and testing it that way. At this point the audio system has not been tested.
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Yes, Definitely recommend testing b4 buttoning UP! Nothing worse than having to take all apart AGAIN!
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Hooking up a battery is easy. I did it to test my radio and speakers. Just keep in mind a car 12v battery is not going to hurt you like a 110v plug in your home could, and I bet you sleep within 4 feet of a 110v socket. Just putting into perspective what your working with.
Interesting how Thomas Edison invented the electric chair to scare folks of the horrors of alternating current. He failed and Tesla won the AC vs DC wars in our homes but DC is how it still works in our cars.
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Oh I'm not afraid of physically getting hurt, I am afraid of frying something. I'm going to test it today though. I'll let you guys know!
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As long as you use fuses you will not fry anything, the newer receivers have fuses in the back so that will cover the receiver at least.
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I tested the radio guys. It works great. Sounds AWESOME. My metra antenna works great too! Even sitting in the metal shop I was able to get crystal clear reception with the antenna!