Topic: 1978 T/A BODY BUSHING LOWERING...VSE FIREAM

[78w72]

hey i was wondering if anyone can help with some input on this. i want to lower my body to frame distance, resembling a vse "fiream". vse/herb adams offered solid aluminum body bushings that were not as thick as factory, therefore lowering the body on the subframe slightly.
 my question is two part> how much, if any, can i cut/slice off the bushings to accomplish this.....without damaging or sacrificing the integrity of the bushing??? i have the energy susp polyurth bushings & i would imagine i can cut about 1/2" off the total thickness of the bushings without hurting them too much.
 2nd ?> does anyone know or have a spec on how thick the vse/fiream body bushing was. or maybe a measurement of how much the body was lowered when using the vse bushings. (compared to factory)
 i do not want to use solid alum. bushings to accomplish the lowering effect i want. any info would help out a bunch....thanks.

[Hitman]

You kinda have to watch what you do.  Be prepared to buy a new set of bushings.  We did this to a car one time (cut the bushings in half) and the car pretty much rode like it was on blocks of concrete.  We ended up putting new bushings back in and lower the car a different way.

[78w72]

thanks brett. thats kinda what i was worried about in cutting the bushings. what kind of bushings were you cutting? mine are polyurth. they already stiffen up the ride compared to rubber, but i would think they are way better than solid alum, even if they are cut about 30 or 40%. the fire-am & vse kits were solid metal. so say i deal with the stiffer ride (wich i kinda want anyways) do you think i'm ok cutting them.
 
how did you go about lowering the car after getting new bushings? cutting the springs? that brings up question c>....i bought new moog springs #5006 i think, the ones that are called for on my car & they sit way too high. (i posted this topic way earlier on here & never really got it resolved.) how do you reccomend lowering the car with cutting the coils (or otherwise). i have read that cutting one coil is equal to about 2 inches drop, so half coil is about 1inch drop. whats the best way to lower the car? & why the heck does moog sell springs that are too damn high??!! they are the same part# regardless of if you have a v6 firebird or a 455 t/a with a/c!!! mine are intalled & indexed correctly but there is almost 4" from top of tire to bottom of fender.

so my remedy (other suggestions welcome) is to do a little of both. slightly lower the body via cutting the bushings & maybe removing the top 1/8" thick washers that come with the bushings to offset cutting that much more off the bushing. & then doing the rest by cutting the coil springs about 2 inches. then it will be equal to about a 1" drop from factory & i will be happy! plus any benefits that may or may not be there from herb's idea of lowering the body via the bushings.

please help with any ideas, specs, or measurements of the vse bushings etc. thanks.

 

[eroc022]

well it appears that you should just by the solid bushings from protouringf-body.com and go from there...then to lower after that youll have to cut your springs, the reason your springs seem to sit high now is because they are new and tight springs as opposed the the 20yr old springs that were on it before which have sagged and worn over the years, given it time it will drop down, but its so slow that you seem not to notice...i put 3" drop springs on the front of mine, and couldnt tell a difference then when i went back last month i saw it....and wow...really slammed the front down and i love it..

[78w72]

i dont want solid alum bushings & dont wanna buy anything new for bushings. i will take my chances & cut these, i was just hoping someone could give me some insight or opinions or some measurements for vse bushings that lowered the body.

also i actually measured the rocker panel to floor per factory instructions & it is 1 inch taller than stock. there is like 4" or more of space between top of tire & the bottom of fender lip! that is not right!! the springs have been in the car since last october & the car has a little over 500 miles since engine,susp & subframe rebuild. the springs havent settled hardly at all! maybe 1/4"-1/2" also the rear leafs are new & they sit great. these moog springs are "universal" & not made to factory specs. kinda lame if you ask me.

by the way.....the car is almost 30 years old...not 20. sometimes i wish it was 1998. i would have bought up all the w72 & se's i could & be a rich man today!!!.

still need any help you guys can provide. thanks

[O'Neall]

I wouldn't worry too much about solid bushings (in fact, poly is considered a "solid" bushing as well).  Metal subframe/body bushings don't add anymore harshness than poly does.  Perhaps a tad bit more road noise, but that also depends a lot on your other suspension pieces.  If you already have poly you probably wouldn't notice much difference.

The problem with solid (metal) body bushings is that people by the el-cheapo Comp Engineering version (or something similar) which are of a poor design because they use only one bushing between the frame and the body and re-use the old rubber on the bottom which is kind of pointless and probably worse than just installing all new rubber bushings, as the old rubber part still flexes and allows gaps to open between the aluminum part of the bushing which can cause a knocking sound against the body and a corresponding rough ride.   Folks like Pro-touring F-body and Global West offer superior products with bushings on both sides of the frame that sandwich or interlock with the body and work MUCH better.  PTFB's are a bit less expensive than GW's and Dave at PTFB is a great guy who will help out customers and answer all kinds of questions.  I highly recommend him.

Also, remember that Herb Adams used the solid aluminum subframe bushings in his Stage I cars which were meant to be street only cars.  And we've all read the rave reviews the Fire Ams received in their day for their street manners.  In fact, Herb put solid bushings on in Stage I before he put on Koni shocks in Stage II... so I wouldn't be too concerned about the solid bushings ruining ride quality.  Plus, you get the benefit you're lookikng for in the fact they you can lower the body down onto the frame without messing up suspension geometry and you know you've got a good quality connection between the body and the subframe.

Something to think about at least before you go just cutting poly bushings and  hoping for the best (keep in mind too that cutting poly bushings will increase their durometer (hardness) and may in fact make them ride somewhat rougher than they do at regular thickness).

[78w72]

thanks for the reply. i will keep the solid bushing in mind, but i think i still want to try cutting the poly ones. they cant be any worse than what solid would be. are you saying the ptfb or gw solids are a "lowering" type bushing? & if so, can anyone give me dimensions for them? that would still give me a measurement so i can go from there with trimming my poly bushings. i wont do it if its any more than about 40% of the bushing. im not sure how thick the poly ones are, i think about an inch if i remember right. so i would be happy cutting 3/8" to about 1/2".

one more thought....do i have to trim the core support bushings too???

[Joker (§ir£Ğragon)]

I believe so, otherwise won't your fenders will be lower in the rear than the front?

[78w72]

thats what i was wondering. i imagine they need to be trimmed as well, otherwise things wont line up.

if i can just get me some measurements for the protouring fbody or vse etc bushings i would be a happy t/a owner with a lowered body thing goin on!!

either that or i'm just going to cut them about 1/2" or 40-50% or the bushing & see what it does.

thanks for everyones help so far. someone has to have these bushings or know the measurements. hitman, how much did you cut off you bushings & what type were they??

[O'Neall]

Yeah, you would want to trim the core support bushings equally as well.

As for measurements, I'm not sure because (at least with PTFB's bushings) they have 3 different possible settings... 1-factory height, 2-lowered 1/2", 3-wedge the body (which I don't recommend unless you are really a road racer/autocrosser because it can mess up body panel alignment).

You might want to contact Dave at PTFB and ask his advice on the dimensions... but keep in mind that for $85 you can have a set of his, they're made out of 6061 T-6 aluminium and steel and come with all new mounting hardware.  If you're gonna go thru the effort to do all this measuring and cutting, etc. why not just get some top quality aluminum ones and do it right?

[78w72]

honestly i dont want to spen anymore $$$ than i have to. i already bought the poly & was hoping to just use those. i'll try to contact dude at ptfb for dimensions.

 in the mean time, isnt there anyone on here that can help with this?? i seem to remember seeing a guy that was doing a fire-am restoration on here. i dont wanna have to sign up at a diff forum to get this answered. i have been on here for awhile now & always got the answers i needed.

hopefully i can get this resolved here. thanks.

[78w72]

no one has any other info on this???

[Jonnyscotti]

Hello 78w72, I have been watching this topic because I have VSE suspension under my 76 TA. The original owner had it installed (I am the second owner). However I don't know much about it because I have not started restoration yet. When I do start restoration (Not sure when that will be) I will be taking lots of pictures. When I get that far I will post them up for everyone to see. I wish I could be of more help, sorry. Best of luck to ya!

[78w72]

hey thanks. i'd love to see some pics when you start. any chance the body bushings are out of it? if not, whenever you can, get me a measurment of how thick the top bushings are. front & rear.

thanks.