Author Topic: Subframe Bushings  (Read 25787 times)

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Offline Grand73Am

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Re: Subframe Bushings
« Reply #60 on: June 23, 2012, 03:27:59 PM »
Yes, you're in good shape!  :)
Steve F.

Offline Corellian Corvette

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Re: Subframe Bushings
« Reply #61 on: June 23, 2012, 08:24:57 PM »
Wow thanks. Just trying to add in my experience, appreciate the kind words.

oldskoolubr - it's not so much as deficiency as a minor improvement. Rear shackles are just another place where your suspension can twist and cause undesirable handling. Many performance rear suspensions (and often just larger cars) have a panhard bar to manage the lateral load of the rear end (the force of the car moving side-to-side). If you think about what’s happening with our leaf spring cars the only thing keeping them from twisting out the back of the car is that little insert in the rear stamped frame and those thin shackles.

PTFB sells a much thicker and beefier rear shackle kit if you’re really serious. But the ones you get from OER are slightly thicker metal than the originals, and they are bent at each end which helps prevent them from twisting. Since I was replacing the bushings and other hardware anyway, I was satisfied that kit would be a worthwhile upgrade.
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Offline oldskoolubr

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Re: Subframe Bushings
« Reply #62 on: June 24, 2012, 01:50:16 PM »
So Albert what is the difference between the Panhard bar and the sway bar?  I know I have seen where they sell the brace that goes around your front sway bar to "Keep the Bolts from ripping out"  So are you saying I am going to be screwed as far as those shackles?  I have never heard of them giving out B4?  Especially on a Daily driver!

Offline Grand73Am

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Re: Subframe Bushings
« Reply #63 on: June 24, 2012, 02:24:02 PM »
Panhard bar is normally only on a big car with coil spring rear suspension. With the rear coil springs and the heavy tail end of the car, the panhard bar keeps the rearend centered to the body. It's more to keep the rearend in place, than to act as a sway bar. Like I have a 67 Impala, and they came with panhard bars as standard equipment. It's connected from the rearend housing on one side and diagonally up to an underbody brace on the other side. A rear sway bar was not standard equipment on those cars, but was an option.
Steve F.

Offline JoshRiess

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Re: Subframe Bushings
« Reply #64 on: June 24, 2012, 02:31:08 PM »
http://www.timskelton.com/lightning/race_prep/suspension/panhard.htm
A good read!
                                     JOSH

Offline NOT A TA

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Re: Subframe Bushings
« Reply #65 on: June 24, 2012, 11:52:53 PM »
Albert thank you for taking the time to write a well written post that covers a wide group of members here who have stock or near stock ride height cars.

Panhard and Watts link setups are difficult to install on most peoples 2nd gens due to packaging. Dual exhaust systems, many with the stock configuration transverse muffler just don't allow much room to set up a device.

I have sidepipes so the exhaust isn't a problem for me and I considered a Panhard or Watts  to control the movement I get during certain road course corners. I had an experienced instructor follow me at Sebring and he could see approximately 1" total lateral movement of the rear axle. So I started planning out my options thinking I NEED to fix this!. In the end I decided to leave it as is. I'm not "racing" I just attend track days and HPDEs for fun so I decided the slight cornering gains that MIGHT be possible with the centering devices weren't worth the time and money spent that I could use elsewhere. I am going to install spherical front spring eyes and possibly different shackle bushings.

 I also spoke with Harry Quackenboss who came up with the "Adams mod" When he worked for Herb and I will be doing that modification to reduce rear end squat out of slow speed corners on track. Pic  shows the squat occurring out of a corner on track.

For those interested in the Watts Link, Fays2 makes a nice setup which might increase cornering capability of a well set up 2nd gen track car on a track WITH an experienced driver. For street use it won't do much IMHO because you can't push the car hard enough to make centering devices necessary or useful even during "spirited" driving.  Additionally, really sticky DOT R or autocross tires are necessary to get enough grip to experience more than minimal lateral rear end movement before the tires loose their grip.  http://www.fays2.net/fays2_watts_link_15_.html

« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 11:55:07 PM by NOT A TA »
John Paige


Dear Not A TA,
This is Tin Indian's wife. Would you please stop posting pictures of your car? Especially ones with er, ummm, sidepipes. I'm dizzy already and have to get up early in the morning.  :-X

Offline Corellian Corvette

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Re: Subframe Bushings
« Reply #66 on: June 25, 2012, 01:24:57 AM »
NOT A TA what a killer looking car!

Yes, to be clear everything I wrote refers to a setup for an entusiastic street car.

For serious cornering and road racing everything is wrong.

My point on the Panhard bar was just to describe the lateral movement of the rear end. Unnecessary on our cars beacuse they are pretty small and lower to the ground. A big old Impala or Galaxie is wider, longer, and throws a lot more weight around.

Getting beefier shackles is more about keeping things predictable. Scary handling comes from parts moving in directions they aren't supposed to at unexpected times...
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1972 Firebird Formula
1978 Trans Am
1965 Mustang
1965 Olds 442
1967 Galaxie Convertible
1968 Charger
1973 Stingray
1980 Triumph Spitfire

Offline TurdPolisher

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Re: Subframe Bushings
« Reply #67 on: October 21, 2012, 10:18:58 PM »
Great thread guys, with this I have decided that my control arm bushing choice of the Moog to be a good one as well as my poly bushings for the sway bars.  I am also going with the opinion that Poly subframe bushings would be a good step up from stock......although maybe a bit squeaky yet a bit more stiff.  Instead of the Lithium grease that washes out of the bushings, any thoughts on using red grease instead to dampen the squeaking{ Could the reason they don't already use that is that it might break down the poly over time..............Just not sure why they prefer Lithium that washes away.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2012, 10:21:27 PM by TurdPolisher »
If you are going to do it wrong........you might as well do it RIGHT!

Offline Grand73Am

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Re: Subframe Bushings
« Reply #68 on: October 21, 2012, 11:14:44 PM »
There is special grease for use on urethane bushings, so that's what I'd use on any urethane bushings. It's very sticky and waterproof, so it won't wash off. Don't forget to use it on your sway bar bushings, since they will squeak a lot without it. Here's a page at Summit with a list of their urethane bushing grease products: http://www.summitracing.com/search/Department/Oils-Fluids-Sealer/Part-Type/Assembly-Lubricant/Assembly-Lubricant-Usage/Polyurethane-bushing-installation/
Steve F.

Offline TurdPolisher

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Re: Subframe Bushings
« Reply #69 on: December 16, 2012, 10:00:02 PM »
There is special grease for use on urethane bushings, so that's what I'd use on any urethane bushings. It's very sticky and waterproof, so it won't wash off. Don't forget to use it on your sway bar bushings, since they will squeak a lot without it. Here's a page at Summit with a list of their urethane bushing grease products: http://www.summitracing.com/search/Department/Oils-Fluids-Sealer/Part-Type/Assembly-Lubricant/Assembly-Lubricant-Usage/Polyurethane-bushing-installation/

Thanks Grand I will keep this in mind for pre trip work that include torquing the bolts on the control arms and greasing the ball joints and sway bushings.
If you are going to do it wrong........you might as well do it RIGHT!

Offline Dinero

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Re: Subframe Bushings
« Reply #70 on: April 20, 2015, 10:09:10 PM »
A turbo charged 403 on a 80 T/A?
Desi Dinero

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