Topic: Cowl tag info: build date...

[RENOVATIONS]

Do the numbers on the PHS match the cowl plate?

All but date code.

EDIT: So which date would you consider the actual build date? The cowl info or the PHS?

[Rick]

Hmmm...my thought would be the cowl info.  PHS reflects the paper records -- but those could be wrong and PHS is telling you faithfully was recorded incorrectly.  The cowl tag is ON the car and so that would seem to be more indicative of what actually happened.

[Hitman]

I would fathom to guess it would be the other way around.  The cowl tag on the car could have sat for a while.  The paper they do with the car when it gets completed and sent off the line.  But I could be wrong.

[Rick]

What we need is somebody who either worked at Norwood or Van Nuys, or knows somebody who did.  It wasn't all THAT long ago -- surely gotta be some people still around.

[WarbirdTA]

Rick,
I've been searching for someone myself.
One guys said he did, but never answered any emails.
One of the problems with that is, the workers pretty much only know how to put in a few parts at a certain station.
I want to meet someone in management.
They would know.
I would think that the same is done even now, so even someone working on an assembly line/management now, would know.
And if they do, they may not be allowed to talk about it.
I remember for years, you couldn't take in cameras in the plants.
Then, around 1992, Van Nuys allowed it (since they were going to close).
And of coarse, i didn't take my camera then.
When I wanted to go back, they were already closed.
Maybe meet someone at the Corvette assmebly plant right now would know.
I'm sure people go visit that plant (too far for me).
I did meet someone who was in Pontiac advertizing.
He worked on doing the big billboard ads that were all along the freeways (at least, in the Los Angeles area).
Yes, I even took some pictures of those as well.

George 

[Rick]

Yeah, George -- you're probably right.  The process used in other plants is probably pretty close.  Somebody here SHOULD know somebody who works in an assembly plant today (or within the past 5 years) -- we could probably find out from them.

[RENOVATIONS]

Doesn't BANONE on TAC work for GM in Canada?

[Rick]

Yes, he does.  Maybe he'd know -- who's gonna do the asking?

[RENOVATIONS]

I PM'd..I'll post any info I receive.

[Rick]

I dunno how similar the truck plants are, but Motleyfan (Nick Sesslar) works at the Fort Wayne Assembly Plant also.  If you don't get any joy from John, I'll pose the question to Nick.

[RENOVATIONS]

Go for it...it couldn't hurt. Nothing from BAN ONE yet...

EDIT: I have a PM from BAN ONE...but waiting on follow-up. I'll post what I have when I return.

[Rick]

OK -- lemme get a PM out to him...

[Rick]

PM sent.

[RENOVATIONS]

Here's what I have from John (BAN ONE on TAC):

" Septemper 76 should put you into the 77 model year (my 77 was built Sept 6, 76). Model change over usually occurs between July and August. Having said that, I would say your cowl tag is correct with a build date of April 76. What is the actual date on the PHS? No 77`s can roll off the line before the 76`s are completely built out. In other words, you can`t have one 76 sitting in the plant say waiting for a repair with 77`s rolling off the line.

I guess you don't have the build sheet to view the date on it. Something isn't right thou. There was a strike that year but it didn't last a week so I am a bit confused as to why the huge time spand.

Here is another thought...

Now if the PHS document shows the ship date in September and built in April. Maybe the car was used for display purposes in the plant. We have done that with some of the cars here but I don't ever recall one sitting in the plant no where near that long.

You also might want to compare the last 6 digits with other 76's that have paperwork on their production date to see where yours fits in. This will give you a better idea where yours should fit in. "

From what he says and along with info from Brett and others...I'd say the April '76 date is the "reliable" date to go by. BUT if any of you '76 T/A owners wanna PM me your 6 digit production # and your build date for reference, that would be appreciated also. Thanks again guys for all the input.

..and now back to regularly scheduled programming....

[Rick]

This is snipped from the reply I got from Motleyfan:

"PHS date is the completed vehicle date. What they are using as a reference would either be the invoice date, or the date that the vehicle hit "paypoint" (end of the assembly line) at the plant.

The cowl tag date is when the vehicle was started. Although there is a few months between the two and it is unusual, it would not be impossible for this to happen.

The body could have been started in the body shop and cowl tag printed on the date listed. Something could have happened downstream in the process that could have held up the completion of this job. (The motor or frame might have been damaged and the job was pulled). The completed body could have been pulled in body or paint and sat around until it was rescheduled back into the system. I find it hard to believe production would leave a body sitting around for a few months before it was reused. This could happen if the body was started and an option to go on that car was somehow stop ordered (that could explain the few months difference in the dates). Another possibility is the body could have been pulled out of build sequence for awhile for testing or used in mockup. After the body was done being used for what it was needed for it went back into sequence for final assembly. Alot of things could explain it.

A more believable scenario would be that the body was damaged somehow beyond repair during the build ,scrapped, and the original cowl tag was reused at a later date to finish building the body.

The only thing that will reference the build sequence number of this job is the VIN. The Cowl tag only references the body. BAck then Fisher Body did the body builds and then threw the job "over the wall" to GMAD assembly chassis and final assembly work. Back then it was like working for 2 different companies. That too could explain some of the differences in the date. It could also be as simply as someone screwing up on the cowl tag plate when the date was stamped. That happened alot too. "

"One other thing I thought about. During the late spring and most of the summer there was a national tire strike. I know my fathers pickup was delayed for 3 months getting built due to it and when he got it it had Sears tires on it new.

I don't know if GM shut down any of their plants during that time due to a tire shortage but that could explain why the job was held up after being started (possibly specific tires ordered for the vehicle were unavailable). "


Sounds like between BAN ONE and Motleyfan, we've probaby got what happened covered.  Now, what does everybody else think?