Topic: a bit of work on my 77 TA

[eroc022]

Where it screws in is actually part of the frame. The floor pan actually sits on top of it. And that part isn't available new that I've seen

[Schroeder]

so when I buy floor pans it is only the pan on the VERY bottom with now sidewall metal?  Seems kinda stupid to me.  I guess I'll have to get some galvalnized sheet metal and make some patches then.  Another question....are the outer most front seat bolts supposed to have nuts that are welded in place in the frame?  Mine did not and the nuts were hard to access.

[JupiterBandit]

 dfgdfg

[Schroeder]

Thanks jupiter bandit.  I hope to be hearing from you on here and through PMs as I tackle this project.  It appears my pans have LOTS of patching.  It seems to be an okay job.  I would not have done it how they did, but heavy metal was used and the welding seems good.  Should I cut the whole things out and replace completely correct myself since I'm this far? 

I'm looking at either this option and using sheet metal to patch my toe boards:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1975-1981-Camaro-RH-Floor-Pan-Made-In-USA-/120993302234?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A1977|Submodel%3ATrans+Am&hash=item1c2bc346da&vxp=mtr

And this option...comes with toeboards, but will cost me $600 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-1981-Camaro-Firebird-Full-RH-Floor-Pan-Includes-Toe-Board-Made-In-USA-/110958259434?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A1977|Submodel%3ATrans+Am&hash=item19d5a0acea&vxp=mtr

The first option is pry my best bet....I guess my questions are mainly about analyzing the problem.  I don't know what's good and what's bad.  My gut tells me to replace it because I don't know what is all hiding under the rubber and bondo.  Can I safely replace these pans without door braces and a rotisserie?  Finally, if I do go about replacing pans, do I cut them out flat against the rocker? You hinted at this in your first video Jupiter (around 2:50), but I wanted to make sure....Seems like a big job.

[JupiterBandit]

The full pan is awesome. I never seen that one. DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THE RIGHT YEAR!!! MAYBE 1970-1973. I can't really tell by your pictures how much rott you have. It's easier if you replace a whole pan than small individual patches. a lot less welding that way.

If you look underneath and it looks weak or you have a bunch of little pin holes then I would say just cut it out and put the whole floor in. $600.00 seems like a lot but if you cut your welding in half and half the amount of time the couple of hundred dollars is well worth it.

Here's a tip. Use a sawzall to cut out the whole floor pan. Use a air chissel to pop the spot welds. As for the forward mount under the toe board, don't worry about it. It is firmly connected to the rocker and the upper firewall. When you do your toe board only cut out the bad.

I'm making another video of my toe board install. I'll show you the danger areas and how easy it is to cut it out and replace it.

Remeber, I never did this kind of metal work before and the only trouble I've had is finding the time to do it. lol

[Schroeder]

The full pan is awesome. I never seen that one. DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THE RIGHT YEAR!!! MAYBE 1970-1973. I can't really tell by your pictures how much rott you have. It's easier if you replace a whole pan than small individual patches. a lot less welding that way.

If you look underneath and it looks weak or you have a bunch of little pin holes then I would say just cut it out and put the whole floor in. $600.00 seems like a lot but if you cut your welding in half and half the amount of time the couple of hundred dollars is well worth it.

Here's a tip. Use a sawzall to cut out the whole floor pan. Use a air chissel to pop the spot welds. As for the forward mount under the toe board, don't worry about it. It is firmly connected to the rocker and the upper firewall. When you do your toe board only cut out the bad.

I'm making another video of my toe board install. I'll show you the danger areas and how easy it is to cut it out and replace it.

Remeber, I never did this kind of metal work before and the only trouble I've had is finding the time to do it. lol

Which doesn't look like the right now jupiter?

well a lot of the rot could be fixed with small little patches with the exception of the pans under the rear seats.  The whole floor has been patched in the past and seems to be okay now.  I am wondering to to correctly relocate seats and such if I do this. 

And you didn't use a drill on the spot welds but an air hammer?  I'm guessing you used a pointed tip?  Sounds like a good idea.

[JupiterBandit]

The full pan with the toe boards is not right for a 77-78

[JupiterBandit]

The cross rails will relocate the seats. you don't have to worry about that. Just dont cut the seat belt mount out for the front seats. or the rear seats for that matter try to go around them.

The seats bolt into the cross members. Try to save the old pan that you cut out. you can lay it on top of the new one after its installed to locate 2 of the seat holes. no big deal if you cant/ I'll add it to my video.

I used a flat bit in my air chissel. but if you can see where your spot weld are use a spot weld bit. I bought a couple from harbor frieght and they worked perfect.

Definitely cut along the rocker. do not remove the full lip.

[Schroeder]

The cross rails will relocate the seats. you don't have to worry about that. Just dont cut the seat belt mount out for the front seats. or the rear seats for that matter try to go around them.

The seats bolt into the cross members. Try to save the old pan that you cut out. you can lay it on top of the new one after its installed to locate 2 of the seat holes. no big deal if you cant/ I'll add it to my video.

I used a flat bit in my air chissel. but if you can see where your spot weld are use a spot weld bit. I bought a couple from harbor frieght and they worked perfect.

Definitely cut along the rocker. do not remove the full lip.

I figured I could line up a new pan over an old one to locate the seat mount holes, but the problem is my pans are so heavily patched you can't tell whats what.  I don't trust that the current seat mounts are perfectly correct.  When I pulled the seats the front right mount on the passenger side was lose because the nut in the frame rail was not accessible with a wrench to hold when tightening.  It was off towards the rocker panel a bit, so all one could do to tighten the nut to hold the seat down was reach into the frame rail and finger tighten it.  Shouldn't the nut be directly visible in the frame rail hole?  That would be my guess. 

I am thinking I'm going to make a 0 angle bit from a bit I have laying around home for drilling out spot welds. 

Is it wise to cut out my old pan BEFORE ordering anything so I know exactly what I need?  I'm thinking that is the route I'd like to take.

I plan on cutting out the pan at the base of the tranny tunnel, alllll the way forward to where the pan meets the toeboard.  I will then cut the pan carefully away from the subframe mount making sure not to hurt the mount.  I will cut against the rocker and kick panel, all the way tight against the rocker (should I leave any lip off of the rocker or cut flush and flat against it?  I guess I am uncertain what you are talking about when you say "do not remove the full lip on the rocker.), around the rear frame rail (where passenger seat belts mount), and back up along the tranny tunnel to where I started.  I'll make sure to leave plenty of metal to overlap with on the tranny tunnel.  It is not rusted so I shouldn't have to cut any of it out.

[JupiterBandit]

If you can give yourself 1/4"-1/2" off the rocker. LOL don't cut your crossmembers. Cut the bottom of the tunnel up to the toe boards and when you get to the back floor pan cut out the bottom only. Worry about the rear seat pans later. one thing at a time. It should be impossible for you to move your seat. So locating it is not a problem. The mounts are caged nuts in the crossmembers.

[Schroeder]

If you can give yourself 1/4"-1/2" off the rocker. LOL don't cut your crossmembers. Cut the bottom of the tunnel up to the toe boards and when you get to the back floor pan cut out the bottom only. Worry about the rear seat pans later. one thing at a time. It should be impossible for you to move your seat. So locating it is not a problem. The mounts are caged nuts in the crossmembers.

Good thing you told me to leave a 1/2" otherwise I woulda cut right against the rocker.  DO I need to worry about cutting spot welds any place other than on cross members?  Can't I just cut everything besides the members without worrying about spot welds?  Also, I knew the seat mounts shoulda had cage nuts!  Mine must not have been replaced when the moron previous owners replaced the pans.

[JupiterBandit]

I haven't done my driver side yet but if I remember there is a emergency brake cable mount that needs to be attended to.

Just drill out your spot welds along the crossmembers. Stay away from the brace under the rear floor. refer to my video about the brace in the back wehre the demple is along the rocker.

[eroc022]

My best advice, order your pan, then size it up and only use what's necessary. If you want to remove at the rocker that's fine, it looks like a little bu more professional job is all, under the rear seats isn't reproduced so be careful, the repops only go an inch or so up from the back seat foot area.... Other than that you got some good advice

[Schroeder]

crap...so I'm gonna have to make the part under the rear seats outta sheet metal?  Crap...ugh.  Nothing easy!  I measured up the firewall area for thickness as that was the only place I could gain access to see metal thickness.  It appears that the pans, firewall etc. are .035-.039".  Based off this I decided that I will be getting 19 gage sheet metal for my patching, and not for the rear under seat pans.  Another question just came to mind:  Is this weld through primer available at places like O'Reily's and is it to be used where ever seams between original metal and new are made?  Thanks for the help!

[JupiterBandit]

It looks like the $600 full pans you found have the rear under seat. Not sure if it's the same. You can always find a guy parting out a shell. I paid $75 for both of my rear seat pans.

Not sure what Eroc022 was saying "If you want to remove at the rocker that's fine, it looks like a little bu more professional job is all"

If you remove at the rocker? If he means drill spot welds and actually remove the whole pan. I wouldn't do it again. You would have to remove both crossmembers and that's a lot of work to re align the supports and the possibitlity of losing the strength in the rocker itself. If you stay 1/2" off you can get under it with a grinder and smooth out your weld so it will disappear when painted.

Make sure you weld from the top, not from underneath. a lot less grinding.

EROC022, What is the BU?  In, " If you want to remove at the rocker that's fine, it looks like a little bu more professional job is all "