Hitman's Pontiac Trans Am Forum
Trans Am Information => Trans Am Tech => DriveTrain => Topic started by: Bull on April 18, 2011, 09:18:01 PM
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Do any of you fellows with automatics feel that the shifter is a bit sloppy? I am trying to figure out if something is wrong with my setup, or if it's just the nature of the beast. The console shifter on my '76 wasn't working properly. I'd move it to what felt like it should have been a gear position, but it didn't engage. I took the assembly out, took it apart, and cleaned it in my ultrasonic machine. Lubed it up and reinstalled it. What's bothering me is that if the shifter is in a gear, say Reverse, it can then just be pulled right back to Neutral, without even depressing the button. This also seems to be the case shifting from L to S. When in Drive, it seems to have a lot of forward and aft movement, too. Maybe I'm being picky, but on my other old Pontiacs, I never experienced this.
Another question I have is how the reverse lights are engaged. I ordered a factory manual for the car, but it isn't here yet and I want to get the lights working. On my last Pontiac, there was a switch mounted on the shifter to engage the backup lights, but I see no such switch on the '76.
Thanks fellas.
Here's the car:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v708/2ManyCars/IMG_2233.jpg)
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Your backdrive linkage is probably out of adjustment.
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Your backdrive linkage is probably out of adjustment.
Backdrive linkage? Is this something specific to a TH350 car? This is my first '60s and '70s Pontiac with a TH350...all my other cars have or had TH400s.
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There is a piece of linkage (metal rod) that runs from a lever on the steering column down to the floor shifter lever mounted onto the transmission. That rod has one knuckle in it with one bolt. The easiest way to adjust is to...
Scotch the wheels on the car so it wont roll
Jack up the vehicle and support with jack stands so it doesnt fall on you and crush you to death!
put floor shifter in park (fully forward)
make sure ignition switch is off and key in pocket.
Get under car and loosen that one bolt.
Push the rod coming down from the column all the way up.
make sure shifter is still fully forward to dash.
Tighten bolt and check shifter position vs detents.
Shortcut and not as safe...
After scotching and jacking and supporting turn ignition switch to first click not far enough to light up the accessories.
Put shifter in reverse
Get under car and loosen the bolt on the linkage
have someone else turn the switch just far enough to power the acc but not engage the starter.
have them go to the back of the car and watch the reverse lights
push up/down slowly on the rod until the back up lights come on.
Once they do tighten the bolt and that should have you very close also.
You may need to fine tune it just a bit...but you'll be close
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You are the man for providing all that detail. Now I have a plan of attack for the lights. I hope the linkage is still there, and wasn't butchered at some point in the past.
How about the sloppiness issue? Do you notice this with your cars? This is my first 2nd gen, and I've only had it since the beginning of the month, so it's all new to me.
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Should be kinda tight unless the cable is stretched or damaged. If you can spin the collar closest to the dash with the key off then the rod is either missing or unhooked at the bottom. If your shifter is worn out all of us gearheads have a spare.
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The backup light switch is located at the base of the column inside the car btw!
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Should be kinda tight unless the cable is stretched or damaged. If you can spin the collar closest to the dash with the key off then the rod is either missing or unhooked at the bottom. If your shifter is worn out all of us gearheads have a spare.
Spinning the collar to check the reverse linkage, is that what you are describing?
As for the shifter, nothing on it looked worn out, that's what is confusing me.
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yes. if the rod is hooked up you will not be able to freely spin the collar.
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Thanks again. I'll report back with my findings.
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Hi Hammer,
Thanks for the reply. I got excited for a second, then looked at your link. My shifter does not look like the one you posted. No special spring, for example. Just a plain Jane model, I guess!
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from what I remember you can pull the shifter from R to N to D and also push it from D to N without pushing the button.
maybe im worng?? it been a few years.
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Kinda how I remember it too. Always thought you could bump up from 1 to 2 to drive to neutral and thought you could go from reverse to at least neutral without pushing the button.
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on my ratchet shifter I need to push it to go from 1 to 2 to D
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It might be that what I feel as being weird is just standard fare for this model of automatic shifter. The last console-equipped '70s Pontiac I had was a '77 Grand Prix, and I don't recall the shifter being this way. But that was a lot of years ago, now.
The original problem I was having was that the shifter was at the very least imprecise. I shifted into what felt like should have been a gear position, and the car did not move. Had to fiddle with the shifter to get into gear. Everything was filthy dirty, so maybe the linkages were just gummed up. I have the shifter bolted back in the car, but haven't tested it out yet because I want to chase a few other problems while I am working on things.
The "before" shots I have of the shifter don't give the best perspective. I was going to take some "afters" to show how nice everything was after going through the ultrasonic bath, but was in a hurry after dinner to get the shifter bolted up and didn't feel like running to grab the camera.
Here is what I have:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v708/2ManyCars/IMG_2353.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v708/2ManyCars/IMG_2351.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v708/2ManyCars/IMG_2352.jpg)
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I think thats what I have too, and the button must be pushed from P to R but not from R to N to D, and then again to 2 and to 1, but it can go from 1 to 2 to D to N without pushing the button. Fairly certain mine doesn't push to the right as the ratchet shifters are described.
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Hi folks. I had some time to mess around with the TA today, and I think I might be closing in on at least one of the problems relating to the lack of reverse lights. But, you tell me. Based on these two pics, it would seem that I am missing the linkage that connects the lever on the steering column to lever under the car that itself connects to the shift linkage knuckle.
Piece near the trans:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v708/2ManyCars/100_6381.jpg)
Piece on the steering column
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v708/2ManyCars/100_6384.jpg)
Why anyone would just remove this piece and therefore incapacitate the backup lights is a mystery. But, based on some of the wiring I have been working through on the car, I would say that at some point or points in its life, it was not in delicate hands.
Anyone have some spare linkage?
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i do, got a few of them..... you only need half of it though..... most of the time they were removed for header installations....
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U can still test your backup lights by turning the column clockwise with the switch on about an inch or so. Have somebody at the back of the car while you turn the column and they should see the lights come on if the rest of the wiring is intact. The reason that piece is usually missing is that it gets bent up from dragging across speed bump, etc and get the thing out of adjustment. So they just disconnect it. Or they replaced the cable or something and couldnt figure out how to adjust it back to get the key out.
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i do, got a few of them..... you only need half of it though..... most of the time they were removed for header installations....
Any luck finding one? I'd like to get the reverse lights working so I can move on to the next issue and get this old Bird on the road. :)
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Sometimes that linkage is removed when headers are used since they interfere. Or if the engine or trans has been pulled and somebody got lazy and didn't put the linkage back.
Did you look to see if you still have the backup light switch on the column under the dash? You probably do. Remember that it's also the neutral/safety switch. Without that linkage from the transmission, not only don't the backup lights work, but you also don't have the neutral/safety function. The car won't start unless that lever on the bottom of the column is in the up position, as if it were in Park, and you have to leave the lever in that position so the car will start. But then, it will also start in any gear, so you have to be careful not to start it in gear.
If nobody has a spare linkage setup, you might find one on eBay. I've bought them there before.
These are all the parts involved that you need to have:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v159/67SS427/Neutral-safetyswitchroddiagram.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v159/67SS427/LinkageforNeutralSafety-Backup-1.jpg)
Also, you don't have a ratchet(Rally) shifter. The one on the left is your shifter. The one on the right is the Rally shifter: (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v159/67SS427/SHIFTERSRALLYVSREGULAR.jpg)
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VERY helpful post, Steve. Thank you.
The neutral safety is the plastic switch that is sort of arc-shaped, and straddles the top half of the column right? Sits down close to where the column enters the firewall?
If so, I removed it last weekend to clean and lube it.
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yes, that would be it. Glad to help :) .
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Ok, so I received my linkage last week, and had some time today to mess around with it. What keeps the bolt, #13 in the exploded diagram above, from backing out? It seems like that bolt is long, as the head comes nowhere near contacting the surface towards which you are tightening it. And what the heck does the super-thin, sort of bent washer under it do? When I tighten the bolt, it hits the rod leading to the steering column to keep it in place via friction. I get that part, I just don't like how sloppy the design seems.
Much ado about nothing?
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Yes, that's the way it is. The bolt will stay in place when tightened up to the rod. I looked at the head of the bolt on one of mine and it is about 1/8" short of bottoming the head to the #5 part. That's actually good, since if the head bottomed out, then the end of the bolt might not tighten sufficiently on the rod. Your "super thin bent washer" is a "wave" washer, part #14 that you should put on the bolt before screwing the bolt into the #5 part. The wave washer fills in that loose 1/8" space and helps keep it from rattling around too much. Hope that makes sense :) .
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It does make sense, and I am obliged to you for the help. What did I ever do before the internet? Scratched my head a lot, I guess :D
The washer seems so flimsy that I can't imagine it puts much pressure on the head of the bolt, but I'll just take the leap of faith that it does!