Hitman's Pontiac Trans Am Forum
Trans Am Information => Trans Am Tech => Electrical => Topic started by: Kevin on April 04, 2010, 04:17:36 PM
-
Okay guys we've made progress with installing my engine and forward lamp harness to the point that my headlights work, my blower motor works, etc. BUT the car will not start. We hooked the little wire to the S terminal on the solenoid but nothing. We checked the neutral safety switch, but should there be anything hooked up to it? Also, we have a brown wire run next to a green wire coming out of the firewall that we have NO IDEA as to what it goes to and it's a constant HOT... What is this? The wipers work, the inside lights work, the headlamps work etc etc but nothing from the starter. Yes we have the pink wire running to the distributor and we have the battery being charged by our battery charger.. Please Help..
Also we noticed a weird looking white relay right next to the fuse block inside the car that was REALLY Hot..
-
dist should get the brown wire to it too, if its the same as factory colors..... does your motor turn over or you dont even get that much out of it, neutral safety switch should be hooked up too
-
Nothing happens when I turn the key. Also my turn signals don't work either... I replaced the entire harness. Also, note that the two wire (brown and green) thing comes out of my firewall ABOVE my fuseblock through a rubber grommet...
-
ok really quick answer this is it a factory colored replacement harness? ill check my wiring diagrams
-
Directly from M and H Electrical. EXCEPT that brown/green wire was there by itself and didn't come with my replacement harnesses... It just comes straight through the firewall.. Is there anything that needs to be connected to the neutral safety switch? Would that keep it from starting?
-
ok only brown wire under the hood in the engine harness is going to the alternator,you should also have a wire going from your battery to your alternator, and thats all i can see,
-
So why won't it start?
-
hmm not sure there, what color was the wire you hooked up to the stater? should have been purple, also check and see if the collar on the steering wheel is as far counter-clockwise as possible, sometimes those wont rotate as far and it makes the car seem as if its in gear, which wont allow it to start, which looking at the diagram, that purple wire runs from the neutral safety switch to the starter, id check and make sure its hooked up on the inside....seeing how you asked if something needs to be hooked up im going to have to say thats your problem?
-
The wire we hooked up is the correct small purple wire to the starter that is. We have nothing hooked up to the neutral safety switch (That's behind the brake booster right? The metal Tab to the left of the fuse block that sticks up right?)
-
hmm i want to say its tied into the steering column, its going to hook up inside of the vehicle, as the purple wire comes out inside and hooks up there.......crawl under the dash and look for the purple wire.....
-
We didn't even mess with the inside of the car though.. All we replaced was the engine and forward lamp harnesses..
-
do you have any pictures of the parts you are referring to ?
-
Just took some, going to upload.
-
Mystery Wire One: Very Long Cable Comes through firewall...
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc304/anastasiofan92/IMG_0542.jpg)
Ok Green/Brown Wire coming from above fuse block (http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc304/anastasiofan92/IMG_0544.jpg)
You can see it hanging down to the left there
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc304/anastasiofan92/IMG_0546.jpg)
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc304/anastasiofan92/IMG_0548.jpg)
-
And Yes I do know that the brown wire goes to the proportioning valve.
-
That connector with the green and brown wires is for the timing circuit on your pulse wipers.
-
We tried that, but it just makes them go on and stay on. Why won't my car start though?
I have a really weird feeling that the super long mystery wire number one goes to the starter. Does this make sense, as if someone was trying to bypass the neutral safety switch. Because, I remember before I did all this wiring, my car WOULD start in Drive etc.
-
yes i was about to say the long one might go to your starter.....on your post that the battery connects to. as for the brown and green wire it does appear to go to your wiper, but the wipers going to the wiper are black dark blue and yellow with a black stripe, and wiper pumps are dark blue and yellow with black stripe....other than the brown wire that goes to the alternator, and the brown wire that goes to the front lamp harness, i dont see any other brown wires under the hood, green wires are kinda all over the place, there is dark green and light green, but nowhere in my service manual can i find a brown and green connector coming through the firewall like that...
-
So at this point it's just a guess and run with it game? And the best guess is to try that long cable down to the battery post on the starter?
What explains the turn signal not working? Or do those only work with the car on?
Does that long wire just bypass the neutral safety switch somehow? I looked under the steering column and don't see anything that resembles pictures I've found of neutral safety switches..
However I DO see a metal tab next to the firewall in the engine compartment right under the brake booster.
-
Timing circuit connector is the brown wire and green wire.....that's for sure. The other wires Eroc is mentioning goes to the wiper motor. You have issues with your wipers.
I haven't read the whole thread. Measure the voltage of that "long wire" when you're trying to start the car and see if it's got current. By not starting I assume you mean the starter motor doesn't crank the engine.
Make sure that metal tab is pulled all the way up. Is that connected to a linkage to the transmission?
-
Nothing even makes a sound when I attempt to crank it.. Is my wiper motor bad then? The switch operates the wipers fine, but once I plug that brown and green thing in, it just goes crazy and makes the wipers go without the switch even being on...
Is that metal tab my neutral safety switch? If so, what do I need to look for?
Hmm, I need to get under it to see if it's connected to anything.. So if that tab is not connected to the tranny, then the car automatically won't start when I wire everything in the engine back to stock right?
-
The metal tab controls the neutral start switch (I assume you have an automatic). That tab needs to be connected via a rod and linkage to the transmission. When the transmission is in Park or neutral, it positions the neutral start switch to allow current to flow to the starter when you turn the key. It's a safety device that precludes you from starting the car in gear. I guarantee that connector is for the pulse wipers.....those wires go through the firewall along with the tach signal wire through the same grommet. Guaranteed.
On your wipers, you either have a bad switch or a bad motor. If it's the original sliver colored motor.....don't screw around with it. They still sell them new. Just replace it. If that doesn't fix the problem, replace the switch. Chances are the motor is shot. Eroc was looking at the pull out schematic....pulse wipers are located in the accessory section. Pulse wipers aren't on the main wiring diagram.
I'm not sure what that long wire is for, but my guess is it powered a radio at some point. If it doesn't go back through the bulkhead connectors behind the brake booster then it's an add on and you can find the other side under the dash.
Edit:
If the tab isn't connected....just pull it up as far as it will go. That is the "Park" position. The car should crank at that position.
-
After school tomorrow I'll try to investigate what exactly that metal tab goes to and I'll be sure to let you know. I'll take a picture so we can decipher this ourselves easily. Do you have a part number for the wiper motor by any chance?
I'll track down that long wire too while I'm at it. Shouldn't be too hard..
At this point what are the odds that the metal tab is preventing the car from starting? With all that screwy wiring that was in the car before I replaced it, I would put it at about 80% right now considering that my car actually DID start in drive until now. I'm going to bet that somehow that tab was bypassed with the old wiring and that now, since it's back to stock, we're looking at having to fix the problem that the previous owner just avoided..
I connected the starter wire to the S Terminal, I assume this is correct.
Also why aren't my turn signals working? Does that car have to be started for the signals to work in the tail lights/front parking lamps?
-
Just go to the parts store and ask for a pulse wiper motor assembly for your car. I assume you have a 78 from the connector.
It's a high probability that while you were trying to sort out wires you hit that tab down. I hope that's what it is...cause that's easy.
-
Cool. Any ideas on the signal issue?
-
i think the tab ta78w72 is talking of is the linkage for the column safety switch, it it will have a hole in it for a 1/4in rod to go through, best thing to check is that it is pulled up as far as possible, or go inside and the collar that moves behind the steering wheel without moving the steering wheel is as far counter clockwise as possible, your other wire might be some sort of accessory feed, so to test that without having to unbolt anything from the starter to see if it is the problem, secure it to the pos side of the battery.....if it does in fact allow your motor to crank over, find out what it goes to and see about fixing it...as for your turn signals, your key must be on, and sometimes just replacing the relay helps......do you have marker lights when the lights are on?
-
Yea I have marker lights when the lights are on.
-
I just read the part about your car cranking in drive. I missed that last night. If it would do that, then your neutral start switch is deactivated. It doesn't mean that long wire goes to the starter though. It could indicate that your column linkage has been disconnected and that tab in the engine bay was simply pulled up to set the neutral start switch to remain in the "park" setting no matter what gear you're in.
As far as your blinkers, lets get the car started before we take on that problem. But check the bulbs first.
As far as your windshield wipers staying on, there's a section that covers that in the body manual. But, as I stated before, it's probably simpler to replace the motor and if needed, the switch.
-
After school, if I don't have to work, I'll look around and take some pictures for you guys and let you take a look.
-
Mike did you ever figure anything out?
-
Mike did you ever figure anything out?
Yes, I got a couple of things from my electrical diagram. Your starter is hooked up correctly. There is something either wrong with your starter or the wiring in between. My suggestion is to by pass the starter solenoid to see if the car starts and runs with the new wiring first, then to go and back track through the system to find out the ignition problem. I understand this is easy to suggest but since many of us are so far away we are unable to help and are only able to suggest steps to take and try to help you here.
Bypass the starter solenoid would be my first suggestion to see if the car, at the very least, runs as I am unsure, without looking over the wiring myself and tracking them down, what else could be wrong. I wish I could help further.
Purchase Hitman's Service Manual as it has every thing in it to fix these cars and can help you track down (as it has a schematic diagram) what wires go where. The Restoration manual you have is really not going to help with diagnostics.
I have the service manual too actually. Brian Carter said it may have something to do with the purple wire and purple/white wire under the dash near the firewall. We are guessing about the neutral safety switch here.
How do I bypass the starter solenoid? Is this the ole screwdriver trick?
-
Yes the 2 pin connector under the dash that has a purple wire & purple w/white stripe is what plugs into your neutral safety switch. If you bypass that by jumpering the pins on the plug you effectively take the neutral safety switch out of the equation.
BE VERY CAREFUL WHEN YOU DO THIS - YOUR CAR WILL START IN ANY GEAR. So chock the wheels and I'd even go as far as lifting the rear end up so the tires do not make contact with the ground so that the car cannot get away from you.
Other than that....are you planning a trip to OH/NY/PA where you could trailer the car up? Be very easy for a number of us to converge and get this thing running ;)
-
All right boys and girls we had the starter cable on the wrong terminal (R) instead of the (S) terminal so we changed it out and ran it. She ran great, but all the sudden we saw sparks and the battery cable had melted to sh1t. We checked for shorts and sure enough it had melted on the headers... DOH!
Got a new cable coming from M and H so we'll see how it goes...
-
Oh Yeah I'm really excited. I'm going to be looming up everything that needs the extra protection too, especially that battery cable. I plan to route it around the headers just to make sure this time that we're gonna be good.. The turn signals still don't work, but that will come!
-
Car starts everytime now and the battery cable is routed well clear of the headers!
Still no brake lights, no turn signals. Going to check ground on fender up front, and fuse. The brakes and turn signals worked before I switched out the harnesses. By the way, the marker lights in the front and rear, as well as the tail lights and the front parking lamps WILL light up, BUT they don't blink and the brake lights don't intensify when pressing the brake pedal...
-
Do your hazard lights work?
-
No
-
Ok fixed the stop lights/brake pedal depressed lights. Blown fuse. Next, the blinkers. They don't work HOWEVER when you put the blinkers on with the brake pedal depressed one will turn off or something..
-
First things to check are the bulbs. Do the park lights come on? Make sure you've got the right bulbs. Neither the front blinkers or the back blinkers work....right? The side marker lights work when the lights are turned on don't they?
-
All the lights work when I pull the knob out but nothing blinks at all. The lights in the rear are the same as before when they worked before the harness switch. Dome light works etc gauges and clusters are all out of the dash. I was thinking the flasher could have gone bad somehow when we switched the harnesses.
-
All right guys, fixed the brake lights, bad fuse. Put a new flasher in, but still no turn signals..
-
All right put a new fuse in in the flasher slot, nothing still. Then I noticed that the wires that attach to the flasher in the clip by the kick panel are burned up.. This must be the source of my troubles... How do I begin to fix this? Cut above the burnt wires, but splice the new wires to the good portion then crimp into the new plug? Would this make sense?
-
I see there's this plastic white/clear relay looking thing running RIGHT next to the wires. This relay gets super hot and maybe that could have scorched the wires by getting too hot.
-
What's the relay next to the fuse block?
-
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc304/anastasiofan92/photo-2.jpg)
-
The round thing is the flasher for the blinkers.....is that what you mean. If it's the other thing, I can make it out. What color are the wires going to it?
-
80WS6TA says its the horn relay, Hammer says it's the key buzzer relay.
-
The box looking thing is?
-
ACDELCO - Horn Relay
In Stock
Part Number: 344813
Fits vehicles: 86 Plymouth Conquest - Quantity per vehicle: 1
-
Yeah, I read all through my cd but didn't find anything about what that relay could have been, so I guess I figured it out so we're good.