Topic: Front running lights quit working - 1/6/07 Fixed

[Joker (§ir£Ðragon)]

Rear lights work fine.  ALL lights on the car work as advertised EXCEPT the front parking lights. I do not think it's a bad switch however, I do have a brand new switch, I've just never installed it.  I couldn't figure out how to get the switch out of the dash after taking the bezel off.

Not really true...your front side marker lights aren't working right?

Marker lights / parking lights / clearance lights - basicly the same thing with different names depending on where in the country/world you're standing. Suffice it to say he has 4 bulds that aren't coming on with the taillights as they should be. Two of those bulbs are dual filiment types with the 2nd filiment being used by the turn signals. Those turn signals share the same ground(s) as the first filiment. One is working and the other is not. That's why I was asking - if the ground was bad wouldn't it affect the turn signals as well?

The other two bulbs are single filiment types and are not grounded directly to the chassis but rather back through the circuit which is linked back to the turn signals allowing for them to flash or not depending on the specific posision of the switches.

[Rick]

Rich -- your turn signals aren't working the way mine do.  On my car (and, IIRC, all the other cars I've had) when the headlights are on the front turn signal and the side marker light ALTERNATE flashing, i.e., when one is lit the other is off.  Only when the headlights are off do they both turn on at the same time.

Dunno what that means...but it's something different about how your car is working than my car does...

[Joker (§ir£Ðragon)]

Rich -- your turn signals aren't working the way mine do.  On my car (and, IIRC, all the other cars I've had) when the headlights are on the front turn signal and the side marker light ALTERNATE flashing, i.e., when one is lit the other is off.  Only when the headlights are off do they both turn on at the same time.

Dunno what that means...but it's something different about how your car is working than my car does...

That indicates that the side markers aren't getting power from the brown wire.

[ta78w72]

There's a double brown on the interior section of the bulkhead connector.  There's another splice in the engine compartment to feed the four lights.  If the rear lights don't come on, it's most likely a bad switch, at least that's where I would start.  If the back side markers do come on, I'd start looking at the front light grounds, because the rear side marker lights are each grounded.

Wouldn't the front turn signals share the same ground as the front marker lights? Especially since they share the same 1157 bulbs?

He did mention in the first post that all his taillights are working.

OK, first taillights are different from side marker lights. We are trying to solve a problem looking at a computer screen.  We all need to write clearly and describe what we are trying to convey with the proper terminology.  Whether or not the rear side marker lights are working is a key element in determining what exactly is wrong.  Saying the taillights work isn't enough.  That's why I asked the question.  It's kind of similar to that comment "My car won't start".  What the heck do you do with that but ask more questions?  It's also like the recent thread about pinging.  He described it as clatter which would indicated to me something mechanical...and I think you did too Larry.  So, pardon me for nit picking...but I asked those questions for clarity so I could drill down on the problem.

As far as the ground for the turn signal indicators, I'm not exactly sure where that circuit gets its ground.  You could be correct in that the ground is obtained at the parking lights.  But that circuit is also grounded at the IP harness. 

There are only two wires to contend with.  I wanted him to eliminate ground as an issue first since that's relatively simple to do.  If he has ground, it's the brown wire at some point.  Since both the parking lights and side marker lights aren't working, it's either at the splice where they bunch out, or at the bulkhead connector.  As I said, above at this point I'd put my money on the wrong slot in the bulkhead connector.  But, I didn't do the hands on work and I can only guess at what's more probable.

If this post sounds abrupt, it's not my intention.  I'm only trying to help Rich solve his problem.

By the way Rich, that car is beautiful.

[Joker (§ir£Ðragon)]

I'm sorry, but it just seems like the same question is being asked and answered several times but not being interpretted the same way or soemthing. Just like when I said the front turn signals share the ground with the front marker lights. I never mentioned the turn signal indicators. I was talking about the lights in the grills. The turn signals and the front marker lights are the same bulbs. Probably 1157s. If the ground for the maarker light in the grill was bad - wouldn't it affect the turn signal in the grill as well since it uses the same light bulb? One light bulb woudn't normally use different grounds for each filiment.

[Rick]

Since both the parking lights and side marker lights aren't working, it's either at the splice where they bunch out, or at the bulkhead connector.

I think that may be what's confusing things.  The bulbs are working -- they are lighting up, but NOT when the headlights are on.  When the headlights are on THEN they will flash but aren't "on" (as in lit) when they are NOT flashing.

Is that right, Rich?

[ta78w72]

Since both the parking lights and side marker lights aren't working, it's either at the splice where they bunch out, or at the bulkhead connector.

I think that may be what's confusing things.  The bulbs are working -- they are lighting up, but NOT when the headlights are on.  When the headlights are on THEN they will flash but aren't "on" (as in lit) when they are NOT flashing.

No, the parking lights are not working nor are the side marker lights.  That shouldn't confuse things because as I described it there are two different circuits controlling the features of those bulbs.  The blue wires provide power for the flashing, while the brown wire controls the function when you pull the headlight knob marker lights together.  They're different in my mind.  I can see how people could use the terms together but I wanted to be precise so I could try to determine exactly what was going on.

Is that right, Rich?

I never once mentioned bulbs except to say they weren't the problem.  I consistently pointed to either the switch, brown wire or ground.  When I found out that the rear side marker lights and taillights were working I ruled out the switch and figured the wires at the interior bulkhead connector were OK.  That left ground, the wires at the engine compartment connector (either not connecting properly with the interior connector, or in the wrong engine compartment slot), or where the brown wires splice out to the four lights.  Simple enough.

[rkellerjr]

Oh boy, I thought my video would help explain things.  Let me try again...

1)  All turn signals, in the grill, side markers, rear signals, rear markers, all lights that blink are blinking when the turn signals are turned on.
2)  Break lights work
3)  Reverse lights work
4)  When I turn on the parking lights via the cabin headlight switch (not the headlights!) the front grill lights and the front markers do NOT come on, the rear lights and markers DO come on, they work fine.
5)  When I turn on the turn signals (no matter what the headlight switch is set to) all front, rear and markers blink fine.
6)  When I turn on the hazards (no matter what the headlight switch is set to) all front, rear and markers blink fine.
7)  Turning on the headlights has not effect on the above and the headlights work fine.

Does this clarify what's happening?

Now, there is a ground coming out of the light harness, it's hooked to a screw near the battery.  I can unhook it and clean it, splice a piece of new wire and see if that fixes the problem.

The block on the firewall contains two blocks put together, the engine harness block and the front light harness block.  The go together so that there isn't any way that I can plug it into the wrong circuit.  It fits right into a block that guides it in also.

Rick, I've never "looked" at how the blinkers blinked in the past, I'd say they should be blinking like yours and that may be an indicator as to what might be wrong.  Thoughts?

[ta78w72]

The block on the firewall contains two blocks put together, the engine harness block and the front light harness block.  The go together so that there isn't any way that I can plug it into the wrong circuit.  It fits right into a block that guides it in also.

Is that the original harness that came with the car or a replacement?  If it's a replacement, you've got to make sure the right wires from the exterior block comes into contact with the right wires from the interior block.  If it's the original, you've got to make sure that the terminals have the proper integrity and couple together correctly.  That's why you've got to get out your volt meter.  Otherwise, you'll never figure out what's going on.

The video did explain quite a bit.  It was worth putting up.  It made it obvious that it wasn't the bulbs.

[Joker (§ir£Ðragon)]

The block on the firewall contains two blocks put together, the engine harness block and the front light harness block.  The go together so that there isn't any way that I can plug it into the wrong circuit.  It fits right into a block that guides it in also.

Is that the original harness that came with the car or a replacement?  If it's a replacement, you've got to make sure the right wires from the exterior block comes into contact with the right wires from the interior block.  If it's the original, you've got to make sure that the terminals have the proper integrity and couple together correctly.  That's why you've got to get out your volt meter.  Otherwise, you'll never figure out what's going on.

The video did explain quite a bit.  It was worth putting up.  It made it obvious that it wasn't the bulbs.

I do remember that he only replaced the engine harness, not this one. However that doesn't mean that the connection is as good as it needs to be. I think that you and I are both right with the brown wire. The next step is to check that wire with a volt/ohm meter. As bad as the engine harness was I can't imagine that the light harness is without problems.

[ta78w72]

The block on the firewall contains two blocks put together, the engine harness block and the front light harness block.  The go together so that there isn't any way that I can plug it into the wrong circuit.  It fits right into a block that guides it in also.

Is that the original harness that came with the car or a replacement?  If it's a replacement, you've got to make sure the right wires from the exterior block comes into contact with the right wires from the interior block.  If it's the original, you've got to make sure that the terminals have the proper integrity and couple together correctly.  That's why you've got to get out your volt meter.  Otherwise, you'll never figure out what's going on.

The video did explain quite a bit.  It was worth putting up.  It made it obvious that it wasn't the bulbs.

I do remember that he only replaced the engine harness, not this one. However that doesn't mean that the connection is as good as it needs to be. I think that you and I are both right with the brown wire. The next step is to check that wire with a volt/ohm meter. As bad as the engine harness was I can't imagine that the light harness is without problems.

I also wonder how long its been this way.  You're 100% correct.  The volt meter will give him the answer.

[Joker (§ir£Ðragon)]

The block on the firewall contains two blocks put together, the engine harness block and the front light harness block.  The go together so that there isn't any way that I can plug it into the wrong circuit.  It fits right into a block that guides it in also.

Is that the original harness that came with the car or a replacement?  If it's a replacement, you've got to make sure the right wires from the exterior block comes into contact with the right wires from the interior block.  If it's the original, you've got to make sure that the terminals have the proper integrity and couple together correctly.  That's why you've got to get out your volt meter.  Otherwise, you'll never figure out what's going on.

The video did explain quite a bit.  It was worth putting up.  It made it obvious that it wasn't the bulbs.

I do remember that he only replaced the engine harness, not this one. However that doesn't mean that the connection is as good as it needs to be. I think that you and I are both right with the brown wire. The next step is to check that wire with a volt/ohm meter. As bad as the engine harness was I can't imagine that the light harness is without problems.

I also wonder how long its been this way.  You're 100% correct.  The volt meter will give him the answer.

Good point. Rich, you said you don't remember them working immediately after you replaced the engine harness. Do you remember them working just before you did?


Edit: just reread your initial post one more time and see that you said they were working then.

[rkellerjr]

Correct, all light functions worked perfectly until the engine harness install.  What I don't remember is if they worked "right after" the install or not.  It just didn't dawn on me to check them as they were working fine.  I'll get my volt meter out and do some checking, hopefully tomorrow.  Now, I assume I'm to pull the bulb out and check there correct?

[Rick]

Rick, I've never "looked" at how the blinkers blinked in the past, I'd say they should be blinking like yours and that may be an indicator as to what might be wrong.  Thoughts?

Correct.  I've never had any problems with mine, and it's never been apart, so at this point I'm going to assume that's the way they all should have worked.

NOTE:  I didn't mean anything when I said it wasn't the bulbs -- I was just trying to clarify that it's something about how they're working that is the problem.  I'm guessing it's something like you guys are describing, and THE clue to that is to be found in why Rich's lights don't work like mine.

[rkellerjr]

I'm going to re-do that ground coming from the harness first and see what happens.  Then I'll volt meter stuff, weeeeee