Author Topic: Vacuum Measuring Help - Updated 3/10/08  (Read 8015 times)

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Offline Rocky Rotella

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Re: Vacuum Measuring Help - Video added 10/6/07
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2007, 11:15:15 AM »
I'd be alarmed at the rate that a quart of oil is being used.  It's not uncommon to see a quart disappear over the course of a 3,000 mile change interval, but burning a quart of oil in 50 to 75 miles indicates something seriously wrong inside the engine.  

It's unlikely that the oil is being sucked through the PCV valve or sliding past the valve guides, because you'd likely see that coming from the tailpipes in a cloud of blue smoke.  What's likely happening is that the engine is simply "using" oil, and it's probably sliding past the rings.  

Oil doesn't burn clean, and its presence in combustion can likely be detected on the plugs.  That much oil likely doesn’t propagate throughout the mixture properly, and as such as doesn’t burning predictably, which may be one factor why your engine isn’t accelerating smoothly.  Oil also has the tendency to reduce the fuel octane.  

Before anything else, I’d suggest taking the car to a competent mechanic who can perform a leak-down test.  That will give you an indication of the amount cylinder wall leakage, and what your next step might be.      

Offline rkellerjr

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Re: Vacuum Measuring Help - Video added 10/6/07
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2007, 12:03:25 PM »
Rich

Offline Joker (§ir£Ğragon)

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Re: Vacuum Measuring Help - Video added 10/6/07
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2007, 12:51:49 PM »
A good way of explaining it is those commercials about oil where the car is pulling a piano or a boat anchor.  That's what it feels like.  Also, when cruising, the engine feels like a gust of wind is hitting the car in the front.

Try unhooking the chain and turning around so the wind is behind you...


Driving on only downward hill slopes helps too. ;)







Sorry Rich, just trying to cheer you up. ;) I hope it's only something like loss of fuel like a worn pump and not what it's sounding like.
Just out of curiosity, did you look down into the ports of the heads when you had the intake and exhaust off the car? Did anything look wet to you?
« Last Edit: December 28, 2007, 12:53:25 PM by SirLDragon »
Larry


Offline Rick

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Re: Vacuum Measuring Help - Video added 10/6/07
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2007, 12:59:53 PM »
Hmmm...and we move closer YET to the complete teardown I foresaw when he changed the camshaft...  ;D ;D ;)

Offline rkellerjr

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Re: Vacuum Measuring Help - Video added 10/6/07
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2007, 01:05:38 PM »
Thanks Larry, I do appreciate your humor bud :)

Rick .... I can get the block and heads done for about $500 and an engine rebuild kit (minus CAM, lifters and timing chain) for about $390.  Yep, your right, looks like a rebuild of the engine.  I'll probably start a new thread with questions and such so don't bother posting here about it.

I talked with a reliable mechanic and while he can do the tests that you advise Rocky, he indicates that at the very least, the valves need to be redone however, he's fairly confident that the rings are bad and therefore, the engine needs rebuilding.

And the nightmare continues with this car.  So much for having it ready for the Nationals.  Looks like that trip is slowly going out the window this year.
Rich

Offline Rick

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Re: Vacuum Measuring Help - Video added 10/6/07
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2007, 01:21:52 PM »
Awww, Rich -- this is a good opportunity.  Rebuilding an engine yourself isn't really that bad.  It's a heck of a lot easier than the effort you had in replacing the camshaft with the engine in the car.  I've rebuilt them in the driveway before.  If you have an engine stand it'll be duck soup in your garage!  Just have a competent shop do the machine work for you and you can take it from there.  If you've got the skills to swap cams and get it running again, you can build the engine yourself.  Heck, you could even have somebody else take the old one out of the car and set the new one for you if  you didn't want to do that -- and THAT is the biggest part of the job!  Assembling the engine is fun! :) :) :)

Offline Joker (§ir£Ğragon)

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Re: Vacuum Measuring Help - Video added 10/6/07
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2007, 01:24:26 PM »
I talked with a reliable mechanic and while he can do the tests that you advise Rocky, he indicates that at the very least, the valves need to be redone however, he's fairly confident that the rings are bad and therefore, the engine needs rebuilding.

That's why I was wondering about the condition of the ports. I was wondering if it could maybe just be valve guides. The leak down test will tell you exactly where the compression is being lost.


And the nightmare continues with this car.  So much for having it ready for the Nationals.  Looks like that trip is slowly going out the window this year.

Don't give up. Finances permitting you could have it done by then.
Larry


Offline rkellerjr

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Re: Vacuum Measuring Help - Video added 10/6/07
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2007, 01:34:36 PM »
Actually Larry, my next project was going to be the suspension, it needs to be replaced before I will take it on a 9 hour trip.  I probably won't have the money to do both the engine rebuild and the suspension.  We'll see.
Rich

Offline bobspacin80ta

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Re: Vacuum Measuring Help - Video added 10/6/07
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2007, 02:32:07 PM »
At least you will know the engine will be done and you won't be guessing any more.
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Offline rkellerjr

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Re: Vacuum Measuring Help - Video added 10/6/07
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2007, 02:58:32 PM »
At least you will know the engine will be done and you won't be guessing any more.

Yep, engine, tranny and rear end will all be good to go.
Rich

Offline Eagle 1

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Re: Vacuum Measuring Help - Video added 10/6/07
« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2007, 09:16:59 PM »
Rich, if you dont mind I am going to throw in my two cents.
 
Quote
I should also mention that the car is burning oil pretty good.  About every 50 - 70 miles... a quart is gone however, I am not experiencing any smoke out of the tailpipes.

As pointed out, there is a difference between using oil and losing oil.  If your car was burning oil with that much consumption you would definately notice some blue smoke, but more over the spark plugs would be fouling relentlessly.  By listening to the video, I didnt notice any thing that sounded like a dead miss to me which would indicate a fouled plug.  Now this not to say you dont have a fouled plug, but I would pull them and check all of them.  There are many web links that show how to judge your spark  plugs by looking at them as to wether they are fouled or not.  Just google one.
Now if the car is losing oil that is a different story.  Blown seals can be caused by many things, worse case being bad compression rings.  Worn compression rings will cause to much "blowby" in the crank case which will eventually blow engine seals.  Thus the need for a leak down test as suggested.  It should however be pretty obvious by puddles of oil left in the drive way after driving the car if you have a front or rear main leaking.  If its leaking around the valve covers, you will normally have smoke coming off the exhaust manifolds after you shut down the engine, and plus you can usually smell oil when it burns off the exhaust.

Now lets talk about power.  There are several things that can cause an engine to feel like its losing power.  The most common  mistake made when changing engine cams is that people tend to "overcam" an engine.   This means they select a cam that is not best suited for the type of driving they intend to do.  If the cam is to "large" for the engine you may have a feeling of having less power such as you described.  Now, Im not trying to burst your bubble, just pointing out facts, so please dont be offended.
When selecting a cam there are several engine factors to consider.
1.  Carburation, cfm, type of carb, jetting to start out with.  Personally in my opinion, I would get rid of the eldebrock carb.  Every person I have talked to have never been pleased with them.
2.  Intake, what size intake vs intake plenum size or length.  Simply put cams respond differently to the type of intake being used.  If you are running a stock intake, then certain cams sizes will respond differently.  Most after market intakes are best matched with certain size cams.  If I remember correctly you installed a different cam with the aftermarket intake you are using.
3.  Heads or valve train.   As with intakes, the heads play an important part in the effeciency of a cam.

Vacuum problems.  When an engine surges at an idle it usually is due to an air leak somewhere.  The problem with aluminum intakes are that that they are susceptible air leaks if they are not installed carefully and torqued correctly.  Also the carburetor gasket can cause problems if air is leaking past.
These are some suggestions to look at.  First and foremost, I would pull the spark plugs and take a look at them as they can show you a lot about what is going on internally.
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Offline rkellerjr

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Re: Vacuum Measuring Help - Video added 10/6/07
« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2007, 09:44:49 PM »
Thanks Eagle1, I appreciate the post and information.  I think I'm going to move forward with the engine rebuild and all of those things you mention.. well... they'll be right, if there not now.  Without going down and taking some courses on how engines work, I'm never going to understand all of the things you just mentioned that are important to know and how they all work together.  My frustration is that you guys give great advise and information and half the time I can't use it because i have NO IDEA WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT.  See, there's that frustration factor again :)  I WANT to be able to figure it out, fix it and be proud of what I did but this thing needs someone who knows something about engines to trouble shoot it.

From what I can gather from this thread (and others I've written) and with talking with my local mechanic, whom I trust and impresses me with his car knowledge, my conclusion is that the engine needs a rebuild by a professional.

Thanks again and know that none of this is said in anger or malice, just a frustrated guy with a car that just won't run right no matter what I do.
Rich

Offline ta78w72

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Re: Vacuum Measuring Help - Video added 10/6/07
« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2007, 09:54:30 PM »
Rich,
We're all pulling for you. We don't feel right when one of our beautiful cars is down.  And you have a beautiful car.  Take some comfort in not living in California because a rebuild here would run around $6K.  The machine shop charges would be around $2K alone.  With labor at $125 an hour, the bill adds up fast.

Offline rkellerjr

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Re: Vacuum Measuring Help - Video added 10/6/07
« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2007, 09:57:01 PM »
I know, everyone here is great and if I sound like I don't appreciate you guys, it's certainly not what I intend to convey.  Rick called me up today because he knows how frustrated I am with this car.  A lot of you don't know the full story of this car so it's understable that you really don't understand where my frustration is coming from.  Anyway, another time, another thread.
Rich

Offline rkellerjr

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Re: Vacuum Measuring Help - Video added 10/6/07
« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2008, 01:00:05 PM »
Any comments in this thread would be appreciated over at TAC...

http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=10976.msg99188#msg99188
Rich