Hitman's Pontiac Trans Am Forum

Trans Am Information => Trans Am Information => Topic started by: S76GUY on October 04, 2006, 09:01:32 PM

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: S76GUY on October 04, 2006, 09:01:32 PM

Hi John
I have heard a lot about you.
I have read through some of your W 72 article and learned a lot of stuff.
It's great to have someone with your knowledge here posting.
I followed the post the other day about a car on e-bay and some of the in correct parts you mentioned, like the wrong heads for example.

I just had my car restored and was wondering if I post a few pictures can you tell me if you see anything that isn't correct for my car, air cleaner heads, or such?

It would make me feel better about what was done or what may need to be changed. Kind of like a stamp of approval.
Thanks Tony Tirone

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: John Witzke on October 06, 2006, 10:53:37 AM

Tony,  Thanks for taking the time to read my W72 page.  I would be more than happy to look at photos of your car.

Thanks,
John

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: S76GUY on October 07, 2006, 11:54:25 AM

Thanks John.
Here are some pictures.
Some of the pictures are during the restore because I couldn't get any clear pictures of just the motor and engine area.
I added some others too, I hope everything that should be there is.
If not I have to fix it.
Thanks For taking the time to look at them.
Tony.
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/S76GUY/IMG_3537.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/S76GUY/IMG_3536.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/S76GUY/IMG_3535.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/S76GUY/IMG_3534.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/S76GUY/IMG_3529.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/S76GUY/IMG_1674.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/S76GUY/IMG_1697.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/S76GUY/IMG_1668.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/S76GUY/P6150013.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/S76GUY/P6150008-1.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/S76GUY/IMG_2059.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/S76GUY/IMG_2060.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/S76GUY/IMG_2051.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/S76GUY/IMG_2052.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/S76GUY/IMG_2072.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/S76GUY/IMG_1955.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/S76GUY/IMG_1951.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/S76GUY/IMG_1979alt.jpg)

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: John Witzke on October 11, 2006, 11:13:57 AM

Thanks for the photos Tony, very nice car you have.  The air cleaner decal Should be code RE instead of RD.  The brake booster should be black instead of cast iron gray.

Everything look pretty good under the hood.  I see you put the wiring in holders.  How accurate are you looking for (example; color vacuum hoses, etc)?  I can take detailed photos of mine if you need.

Please let me know,
John

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: S76GUY on October 11, 2006, 07:52:40 PM

Thanks John
I would like to make it as close as I can.
I can change the vacuum lines to the green and yellow etc I know that.
The Air cleaner decal I can change also, That I didn't know.
The booster I have to live with for now.
I would love to see some pictures of your car so I have something
to gage mine by.
If you see anything else please let me know.
I love attention to detail, but I am out of my league with this detail
I don't know them that intimately.
That's why I am asking an expert.
Tony T.

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: Hitman on October 11, 2006, 08:32:45 PM

I noticed the extra wire protectors (the black corregated things) and also the insulation missing from the fuel line going to the carb.  John, you mention the brake booster being black instead of cast iron... I don't understand?  The brake booster is a cadmuim color (kinda goldish tint).  Here is a Original W72 car with lower miles that the brake booster is cadmium as well:


(http://www.taspecialties.com/58a6d8220.jpg)

Is it black on SE cars or ...?

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: Eagle 1 on October 11, 2006, 08:59:33 PM

Nice job Tony.
I have question about your ac muffler.  What is that red valve sticking out?  Also, did you switch to R-134A?
thanks.

Brett, I have never seen a black  brake booster before either?

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: John Witzke on October 11, 2006, 09:26:21 PM

Sorry my bad. I meant the master cylinder was orginally black from the factory.

Things that need to be corrected

Radiator cap
Need to add foam insulation on the fuel line
The air conditioning compressor decal is on backwards
Hose clamps need to be tower style
Front hood retainer spring on the radiator core needs to have a greenish teal paint color on the driver side end
Need to make sure all vacuum hose routing is correct
Need shaker drain hose.
Factory did not use wire holders on the red and green electrical engine wiring except on along the top of the driver side intake manifold area.
R12 is still available though GM dealers
Master cylinder needs to be black with a whit cloth decal with red letters DD
Brake booster needs a white decal with FD 7024 in black
There are other underhood decals missing that originally came from the factory

Thats what I see right now.  Would need more detailed photos to verify other areas.

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: S76GUY on October 11, 2006, 09:31:02 PM

Thanks Eagle
Yes, it is R 134 I had it converted, the red cap is for charging port.
They are much larger on the 134 system.
Tony

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: John Witzke on October 11, 2006, 10:00:33 PM

Also, a copper colored ground stap from firewall to engine.

Hope all this helps.

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: S76GUY on October 12, 2006, 04:59:45 AM

Hi John
Yes, all this helps I am going to print this page when all said and done, if you have pictures of your car with the proper stuff that would help me a lot.
I would love to see some pictures.
I have a decal set for under the hood for the individual parts.
I haven't used them yet because I don't know how accurate they are, and where they go.
I can send a picture so you can authenticate them.
But some pictures would be worth a thousand words.
Thanks for all the help.
Tony

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: S76GUY on October 15, 2006, 08:47:34 AM

Here are the decal pictures John.
Tony
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/S76GUY/IMG_2087.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i64/S76GUY/IMG_2086.jpg)

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: John Witzke on October 15, 2006, 09:56:17 PM

These are all incorrect, color, font, etc.  For example the transmission cooling lines codes SM and SU were originally a blue-green color tags with white letters.   The front springs were yellow tags with black letters.

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: S76GUY on October 16, 2006, 03:04:14 PM

Thanks John.
Well with that In mind do you know where I can get this kind of correct detail.
I think at this point you know what I am looking for.
Thanks Tony

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: John Witzke on October 16, 2006, 03:15:03 PM

Glad to help Tony.  Even on my 11,300 mile unrestored original some of these labels have worn over time.  I have taken the original labels and reproduced my own, color matching them to originals.  In the case on the master cylinder sticker DD mine was originally a cloth printed sticker which I have reproduced.  I will shoot pictures of these stickers so you can see them.

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: Hitman on October 16, 2006, 03:20:43 PM

Hey John..... need a venue to sell your sticker reproductions?  :)

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: John Witzke on October 16, 2006, 05:31:47 PM

Brett, I hadn't thought of selling them as I was just making them for my car.  Since these are 1977 only would there even be a market for them?  

I also had the emission label decal reproduced to factory correct in everyway including size, color, correct letter and number fonts, using 3M Scotchcal 220 fim silver / black print with a clear layer.  As reference the reproduction 1977 W72 400 with automatic emission label currently available is incorrect in size, color, fonts, etc.  Since I do not have a GM License to reporduce, the company I used would only print me three copies for my personal use.  Set up cost and the three decals was $150.00.

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: S76GUY on October 16, 2006, 06:25:42 PM

John
I would be interested in the correct reproductions you have.
You can e-mail me or I can e-mail you my number if you would like to give me a call instead.
S76GUY@AOL.COM

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: S76GUY on October 22, 2006, 08:04:17 AM

Hey John
You still here?
Any thing with the decals?
Tony

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: John Witzke on October 22, 2006, 01:08:03 PM

Yes I am still here.  I have some pictures of labels I have made.  I will scan and post here.

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: John Witzke on October 22, 2006, 03:39:15 PM

I will send images to you email

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: S76GUY on October 22, 2006, 04:35:18 PM

John
Pictures are great.
Do you have the decals set up on sheet?
If so are you willing to sell me a set, so I have the real deal?
It sounds like Brett would want to get in on this too.
I am trying to track down all the suff you pointed out and I
have a pretty good start so far.
Tony

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: John Witzke on October 22, 2006, 06:00:43 PM

Tony,

I do not have them set up on one sheet but I can try to put something together for you.  I never really thought about selling sets as these are for 1977 only.

I will try to take more photos without the air cleaner so you can see the vaccum hose and wiring routing.  If you notice on one picture I show the type of tape on the vaccum hoses.  On automatic cars it is one blue tape and one black "friction electrical" tape whereas on 4-speed cars it is red, white and blue tapes.  I do have a picture of a 20,000 mile 1977 W72 4-speed unrestored original I will send to show the tapes.

John

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: S76GUY on October 22, 2006, 06:39:47 PM

Sounds Great John
I appreciate all the trouble you are going thought for me.
With your help I should have a nice engine compartment when I am done.
Tony

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: John Witzke on October 22, 2006, 07:49:45 PM

No problem Tony.  I want to tweek the SM SU stickers just a tad.  All I ask is please be patient as I want them to be as close to perfect as possible.

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: S76GUY on October 22, 2006, 07:58:33 PM

Not a problem.
Are they for the trans lines?
I do have a 4 speed which I think you know.
Tony

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: 78w72 on October 23, 2006, 10:51:01 PM

beautiful car!

2 things i noticed are the aircleaner. i thought w72 had the wider oval opening. & although i caouldnt really see the details of the block, isnt a w72 supposed to have an "xx" stamped & a different casting # thatn this.

i dont claim to be anywhere near an expaert on these cars but i have owned 2 & just restored an original #'s car. right by where the pic of your casting # is, there is an xx stamped stamped on my block. then a wc for manual or x7 (i think) for auto trans. also the vin# of the car should be stamped right above the wc or x7. check your numbers.

regardless of any non-original things, you have a beautiful car there. i hope mine looks that nice someday soon.

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: John Witzke on October 24, 2006, 05:22:28 PM

78w72, you are correct about the air cleaner and block codes for a 1978 model, however, Tony's car is a 1977 and those differed from the 1978.
www.78ta.com/w72.htm

Generally the only 1978 cars that have the serial number stamped above the block code were those produced at the Van Nuys, CA plant.  Those produced at Norwood OH plant were stamped on the passenger side lower part adjacent to the water pump and just above the oil pan.


Hope this helps.
John

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: S76GUY on November 02, 2006, 05:45:50 AM

Hey John
Any updates?
Tony

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: John Witzke on November 13, 2006, 11:00:39 AM

Tony,

Please send your address to my email and I will send the ones I have, minus the transmission cooler lines since you have a 4-speed.  I can provide the throttle label, master cylinder and brake booster labels.  

I will also try to make a WA code engine bar code label for you too.  That label goes on the front driver side engine rocker cover.  I will need to know the build date for your car.

The air conditioning compressor label will need to be purchased through one of the part suppliers like Ames or Year One.

Sorry I have been slow getting back to you as I have been recently promoted with the company I work for and have been transitioning into my new position.   Please be patient with me.  

Thanks,
John

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: S76GUY on November 13, 2006, 06:40:06 PM

John
Great to hear about the job.
I have a lot of stuff I have to put on, so with these it will
just make it that much better.
I got most of the stuff you pointed out, with the
exception of the fuel line insulation. Any idea where
I can get it?
Thanks
Tony Tirone

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: S76GUY on December 03, 2006, 08:08:14 AM

Hey John
Anything  new yet?
Tony

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: John Witzke on December 03, 2006, 10:01:45 AM

Tony, please check your email.  Still working on the bar codes for the WA label. But let me know what you think.

The fuel line insulation foam can be purchased at heating and A/C wholesale distributors.  It has the same texture as the original when new.  It is made by Armstrong called AP/Armaflex.   I will get the correct size as I have one packed away.

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: S76GUY on December 04, 2006, 03:45:19 PM

Thanks John
That's a good tip.
Tony

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: S76GUY on December 18, 2006, 05:13:11 PM

John
I got the Armaflex.
It looks real big.
It's 3/8 inside and 3/8 wall thickness.
That's the smallest they make.
Is this the right stuff?
Thanks Tony

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: John Witzke on December 20, 2006, 08:53:35 PM

Tony,

That is the same as I have and is very very close to the original size.  Overall it is 1 inch in diameter.

hope this helps

Title: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: S76GUY on December 22, 2006, 05:16:25 AM

Thanks John
It just looked huge, but I guess not.

I am still looking for pictures
of the charcoal canister install too.

Thanks Again

Have a great holiday.
And I will talk to you soon.
Tony T.

Title: Re: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: S76GUY on May 01, 2007, 03:58:26 PM

Hi John
The warm weather is coming.
I have some more stuff I need to get done.
Hope you can look at some pictures for me.
Thanks Tony

Title: Re: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: S76GUY on May 12, 2007, 09:14:57 AM

Bump
John are you in the house?
Tony

Title: Re: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: TASEGIRL on May 13, 2007, 01:32:57 AM

Hey Tony, Nice car.  Just wondering if you bought the car from a guy in Pennsylvania a couple of year's ago that had a towing company(think his name was Roy).

Title: Re: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: S76GUY on May 14, 2007, 05:31:30 AM

Tasegirl
Thanks for the complement.
Yes, the car came from PA.
Do you know it? I don't know the guys name.
Ill fill you in on the story if you are interested.
I always wanted to know some history on it.
What's your name by the way?
Thanks Tony T.

Title: Re: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: S76GUY on May 22, 2007, 07:59:01 PM

Bump

Title: Re: W72 Engine Specs
Post by: S76GUY on June 11, 2007, 03:47:51 PM

Hey John
You still with us?
Tony