Hitman's Pontiac Trans Am Forum
Trans Am Information => Trans Am Information => Topic started by: TAluvr on September 08, 2006, 03:33:40 PM
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Hello all need some advise, in the process of bidding on a 1978 400/4SPD NON-ttop car.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260029411653
My question is how to be sure if this is a true WS6/W72 car. Can the Vin tell you anything? 2W87Z8L170111 the guy selling said he thought this might be a WS6, can you have one option without the other?
Any help at all would be appreciated, this seems like a sweet TA and Im over having T-Tops like I have now, theres little to do to kill the rattles and Im spending a fortune on that. Out with the old in with the NEW! :P
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Its has the 7"rims on it so unless the 8"rims got replaced, I would say, it's not a WS6. I know in 79 you couldnt get a W72 without a WS6 but not sure about 78.
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Well, he never states in the auction that the car is a WS6 car. He does state that it is a W72 car, but never says it is a WS6. Now, from the looks of the engine it does have the chrome valve covers that came on the W72 engine. The L78 engine valve covers were painted to match the engine. Now of course it is easy to replace the valve covers so here are two things that you can do..... 1. Ask for the number off the engine, if it is an X7 or WC, then it is a W72 Pontiac 400 from 1978. If it is a YA or YU, then it is an L78 400 from 1978. Check this page for more information:http://www.78ta.com/enginecodes.htm . If it is not ANY of those numbers, then it is not the original engine for the car so all of that does not matter anyway. 2. You can contact Pontiac Historical Services to get the documents to prove what the car is or isn't (www.phs-online.com). Now, another thing to consider is that the 1978 Trans Ams that were 4 speed cars ONLYT came with the W72 rngine. You could not get the 4 speed with an Olds 403 OR the L78 Pontiac 400. So, if it is a true 4 speed car and it has the original engine, then it MUST be a W72 Pontiac 400.
Now for a quick check on if the car is a WS6 car, then ask him to read the part number off of the top of the steering box. You can easily see the number by looking in the engine compartment. The GM part number is right on top of the steering box. The WS6 box is part number 7829773 (at least that's the 78 part number). So, have him read you that number to see if it matches. Hope this helps. Let me know if you need anything else.
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So Bret whats your opinion of this car, if anyone knows the 78 its you! Have you seen this car anywhere in your circles? Does this car have any value if taken to the next level? Im talking long term upkeep investment? Is it worth 15k? He also told me he took the WS6 rims off because he liked this style better and traded with someone, or something like that, but I have a pair of the WS6 rims I think Bret restored at one point, theyd look awesome on this car. Scary buying over the net! He says it has the P225-70-R15 tires, I understand that suppose to mean something according to a book by Thomas E. Bonsall - Firebird A Source Book it says on page 121 WS6 Performance Package includes these particular size tires shown on the door jam.
IM SO CONFUSED! :shock:
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Gotta admit if one was launched at the Detroit Auto Show for 2007-08 we'd be all over it! Frigging Black Diamonds!
(http://i23.ebayimg.com/05/i/08/48/5f/9d_12.JPG)
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You really have to ask yourself if the car is worth it to you. It looks like a nice car for being an SE clone, but the photos don't really show alot. Some of the photos raise some questions on the actual mileage of the car, but overall it looks to be a nice looking Trans Am. So.... is it worth it to YOU?
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I can tell from the engine picture the cylinder heads are not 6X. Also incorrect air cleaner style for a 1978 W72 car
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Ya you guys are good at bringing things to reality, a nites sleep helped to, not as eager as I was yesterday. Guess Im going to hold off for now. Im dieing to find a Trans Am that is in the best original condition. I definitely dont want to buy an Ebay lemon or clone! I loved the way it looked and got caught up into it, but to spend 12-15k on the absolute unknown is kinda nuts, but the car definitely shows well with photos and I know how deceiving that can be.
Does anyone know the production numbers in 1978 regarding 400/4spd?
Hitman you said the miles might not be accurate? What makes you believe this?
Bottom line is this the type of TA that would increase in value over time? Anytime I think about buying a 78 TA this is the first site I hit!
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The rear anti sway bar doesn't look like 3/4 inch. Ask him to measure it. Also, ask him to turn the steering wheel lock to lock. A true WS6 car will be 2.5 turns. Those two things, along with the correct decal in the door, would point to the WS6 suspension. However, if this originally had a manual transmission, it was a W72 car. It does appear that the engine has been meddled with. And, I don't understand why they would change the air cleaner base. The fuel intake line isn't insulated either. It would be odd for a 72K car to have had some major engine work as this appears to have had. The A/C isn't working either.
This car, in my opinion, isn't worth anywhere near $15K. I, like Brett, would be very leary of the mileage. But it does look like a solid car. Don't expect to buy it and not have to put money in it though. If the tranny hasn't been rebuilt...it's time. Who knows what the engine is like. You'll have lots of supsension issues too. All normal for 30 year old cars.
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At first he says he will close the auction at 13500.00 reserve is 15k then says he wouldnt as there is a guy in Texas that has offered 14k so now he wants to let the auction run its course.
One of the main reasons I liked this car is that he said it was tight with no rattles, after having a 1980 T-top TA that was music to my ears!
Who knows the more I think about it the crazier it makes me! Maybe Ill wait for the Barrett Jackson show again, but man they are way over priced at that show!
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Someone saying they'll give you $14K is vastly different than someone giving you $14K. See what the auction brings. Bid if you like the car and have the money to spare. I've always figured it was better to find a nice solid car and pay a little extra than to pay less for a car with RUST problems. I hate rust.
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There were 12,692 Trans Ams produced during the 1978 model year with W72 and 4-speed manual transmission.
Also during the 1978 model year your could get a W72 Trans Am without WS6. For 1979 that changed as WS6 was a mandatory option as was J65 4-wheel disc brakes and 4-speed manual transmission.
Don't be in a hurry to jump and buy. Ask questions is not sure as several of us can help with whats correct and whats not.
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Believe me brother I know you guys know your stuff thats why I come around and ask! :wink:
I hear what your saying, what I was hoping out of this is to get 10k miles and let my wife get used to it and then sink some money into it. I know it will need ticky tacky stuff along the way. If I had the money Id go for that 1979 Trans Am Blue with 7025 miles or that other one with 4500!
I was able to get the cowl tag its big so Ill just post the link, I have asked him to send me one more clear however even as blurry as it is it does not look like Hitmans cowl info.
http://www.quicklysell.com/++Joes%20Files/untitled2.bmp
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Code 24 for paint is Martinique Blue
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Nuff Said thanks!
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Heres the Vin Number he sent me.
I took 3 more but it is hard to get the camera in there.
I wrote down the numbers
ST 78 2FS87 L 22611 BDY
TR 19 N A51W24LW24U PNT
05C B 3 - 151211
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Ok well Im now after a different car and need some help, it seems the more I study the more confusing all this gets!
I decided to send for information from the Pontiac Historic Services to verify some details. 1978 400 4SPD.
My question is this, if the dealer invoice lists the option codes as W72 6.6. Litre T/A (400) 4BBL V8 suggested retail 75.00 invoice amount 58.50 and lists an additional code of WS6 Trans Am Performance Package suggested retail 251.00 invoice amount 195.78
Why wouldnt the invoice show auto or manual transmission?
Do these option codes show any potential value to this car as collectible?
I did read the new page by John Witzke and it seemed to confuse me even more :lol:
Addition info on invoice
W72 6.6 Litre T/A (400) 4 BBL V8 Engine
C60 Air Conditioning Custom
UA1 Battery Heavy Duty
C49 Defroster, Electric Rear Window
A01 Glass, All Windows Soft Ray
B51 Insulation, Additional Accoustical
Y92 Lamp Group
C95 Lamp, Dome Reading
AU3 Power Door Locks
A31 Power Windows
UN9 Radio Accomodation Package
N33 Steering Wheel Tilt
WS6 Trans Am Special Performance Package
CD4 Windsheild Wipers, Controlled Cycle
Y90 Custom Trim Group Viynl
Date Shipped 6-16-78
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The sheet will not list the 4 speed because that was the standard option. You had to pay more for the automatic... at least that is from my understanding. Also, the PHS doesn't list ALL of the options for that car, it seems like thye just did a "pick and choose" which ones they listed.
The option codes that you listed, the important ones that add value is the W72, C60, AU3, A31, and WS6. The other ones are nice, but don't neccissarily add value.
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The option codes that you listed, the important ones that add value is the W72, C60, AU3, A31, and WS6.
All of which I have. :D
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TAluvr, please let me know in what way did my page confused you. The 1978 model year was a bit confusing with two plants, incomplete production numbers, etc.
With a ship date of 6-16-78 I would assume it was a 4-speed car as late May 1978 would have been towards the end of W72 automatic production. In the very beginning of the 1978 model year, W72 included WS6 however by Oct 1977 W72 could be ordered without WS6.
For the first part of 1978 W72 could be ordered with 4-speed or automatic at no extra charge.