Hitman's Pontiac Trans Am Forum
Trans Am Information => Trans Am Tech => Electrical => Topic started by: mikeb78ta on March 09, 2009, 12:39:55 PM
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Hey guys,
I travel a lot for work and it seems like every time I leave for a few days I have to come back and re charge the battery. I've been to have the battery checked(only 2 months old) and also have the alternator checked. they both check out okay. I don't have any aftermarket accessories hooked up and I always make sure the lights, doors , trunk, stereo etc are truly off and not drawing any power. Is there any other suggestions you can think of that may be draining the battery???? Thanks
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Two suggestions that would help you a lot:
Get a "battery tender" and leave the car hooked up while it's parked. A battery tender constantly measures the battery voltage and only runs a little charge into it if the level starts to drop off a bit. Batteries self-discharge readily and will go flat from just setting, and this is hard on them. My car sets most of the time but the tender keeps it ready to go. My batteries also last for inordinately long times too -- as much as 3X normal lifespans because they're always in top charge condition.
You can also disconnect the battery if the car's just sitting. Almost every car has some minor load somewhere -- the clock, for example -- that pulls it down constantly. While it's a good idea to find excessive loads (like trunk lights that don't shut off, or a glove box light that stays on) you will always have the minor ones to deal with. Disconnecting the battery from the car cuts you off from those loads, although it still doesn't eliminate the "self-discharge" problem described above.
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It's funny because I do have one. I just tend to want to hook it up only long enough to get the car to start and take off... Probably not the best thing though. I have looked around the car and don't see anything obvious, but either of your suggestions are better than I have been doing... Thanks! Could a semi loose -(neg)cable on the battery adversely affect the drainage? I tightened them down just now. The -Neg was a little loose.
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Loose cables are never a good thing, but it shouldn't *increase* the draw-down problem. It might slow the recharge process, however.
The best thing to do with the battery tender is to just leave it on 24/7. Mine stay on the "hobby" cars (75 TA, 86 Corvette) for a months at a time with no problems.
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That wouldn't cause a drain, but could cause a bad charge or hard to start condition.
also, do you have a multi-meter or even just a test light to check for a drain? To do this, disconnect the pos cable and connect either the multi-meter set to test amps, or a test light in-line between the battery and the cable. Anything over about .20 amps (at the very most) will drain the battery. The reason I say there will be some is from things like redio memory and the like. Or if it lights the test light then you have a drain. If you find that it does then start pulling fuses until you find the one that causes it to drop/turn off. That will be the circuit where your drain is.
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Your clock could be draining voltage.
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I do have a meter and will try what you said Larry.
AS far as the clock draining my battery, I don't have a clock.
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test light and pull fuses to find the circuit
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my car drains
and goes dead in 2 days if i dont drive it
still havent found whats doing it
i do have 2 wires that have to be connected to the battery to make it start
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I'd suggest an ammeter.
This measures current flow, sorta like the electric company
meter on the side of your house.
"If" there's an energy thief this will indicate it.
Once you actually "see" how much drain is occurring, one
way to isolate it would be by pulling fuses one at a time and
gauge the effect.
Joe
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I'd suggest an ammeter.
This measures current flow, sorta like the electric company
meter on the side of your house.
"If" there's an energy thief this will indicate it.
Once you actually "see" how much drain is occurring, one
way to isolate it would be by pulling fuses one at a time and
gauge the effect.
Joe
Now why didn't I think of that? ;) lol
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Thanks for the ideas. I'll get on it and see how it goes. I'll keep you posted to what I find...
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Even without a meter you can check for obvious things like....
Worn insulation in the engine compartment
Redneck hackjob on the front light circuit
Redneck hackjob under the dash
**Mine had all 3 of the above. Once I replaced the harnesses the drain went away! But its a really good idea to have a multimeter anyways for troubleshooting other electrical issues.
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I do have a meter and will try what you said Larry.
AS far as the clock draining my battery, I don't have a clock.
What the heck kind of car is that? No clock? Don't you have rally gauges in that Trans Am?
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I missed that. That is weird.
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my car drains
and goes dead in 2 days if i dont drive it
still havent found whats doing it
i do have 2 wires that have to be connected to the battery to make it start
You might see your problem go away now that you have your cluster wiring figured out.
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That's not me, but thanks ;)
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I'm still having a batery drain issue. Is it possible that a faulty ignition switch could be the culprit? I noticed yesterday that unless the key is in the off and column lock position, my fan motor keeps running unless I slide the A/C switch all the way to the left and off position. I also have power going to the power window switch without the key in the ignition. I have a new ignition switch I just have't replaced it yet. Originally I was going to do it because I was re-keying the rest of the car, now it seems like I should do it to see what's going on in the column. What do you think??
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That's a good guess. If it was only the windows, I'd be thinking that someone did some wiring to make the windows work with the key out. But if the fan continues to blow, well that's an indication that somethings wrong. The ignition switch is a moving part and wears out....so that's a great place to start. You know, that could be part of your tach problem too. That's a really long shot though. You might not be getting enough current. Did you measure the voltage at the tach terminal? When cranking you should get more than seven volts. At this point, I'm throwing darts in the dark.
I'm like the blind person throwing rocks at a coffee can a hundred yards away. Given enough rocks, I just might get one to go in.
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Okay. I just replaced the ignition switch. That was a lot easier than I thought it would be. However the fan still blows after the ignition is put into the "off" and locked position. The windows go up and down as well. I have traced the wiring to the fuse block. I tested for voltage with the key in the ignition and turned to accy. The test showed everything at the fuse block 12 volts. When I turned the key into the off position. I tested everthing for voltage and the Slot where the Rear window /cig lighter lit, the window lit as well. As far as I thought there shouldn't be voltage at those 2 spots unless the key was in the ACCY position. Could there be a bad ground somewhere. If so where would the first place be to look? Thanks
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How hacked up is your underdash wiring anyway? You've been going nuts over the tach, and this problem is piggybacked in too. How many other electrical problems are you having or have you had? It may be time for a step back and look at the big picture... ??? :-\
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<---- Agrees with Rick!
Time to take a step back and see what else is wrong with your wiring. It may just be time to bite the bullet and get an underdash wiring harness to straighten everything out.
M&H Wiring Harnesses has a very good product. I have all their harnesses under my hood which straightened a bunch of issues out for me!
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So I went outside to figure out what was going on and I found this mess. It is the grey wire that is fried. Can anyone tell me what this cluster is for? It is from the most forward plug in on the steering column. The wire was hot and is fried all the way to behind the dash cluster. It definitely wsn't like this before. Also the rest of the underdash wiring looks to be original. Only this new nightmare. Any Help?
IMG]http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii354/mikeb78ta/067.jpg[/IMG]
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OOps Here's the Pic.
(http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii354/mikeb78ta/067.jpg)
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It's not grey actually, its brown with a white line and looks to me that it connects with the orange wire and runs all the way to a large cluster to the fuse block.
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Here is a link that will help: http://www.firebirdtransamparts.com/techinfo/harness/harness.htm (http://www.firebirdtransamparts.com/techinfo/harness/harness.htm)
Read everything on that page including the sub-links.
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Not to sound overly reactionary or anything but.....is your battery disconnected right now? If not, would you calmly RUN and disconnect it until you repair the damage?
That looks like that wire took a lot more current (amps) than it should have and basically cooked the insulation off the wire. I'd find out what that runs to and see what's going on. I'd also definitely pull the rest of the harness to see if any other damage happened to any adjacent wires.
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I think it has something to do with the voltage regulator and or the volt gauge. If so is there a way I can bypass the old wire and run a new one. The rest of the harness looks pretty good. I followed the large group of multi colored wires I diddn't see any other breaks or burns for that matter. The brown/white wire are connected to the thick orange wire in the picture. My service manual is all in Blk and wht and I can't read half of it. God I need to by a real manual with Colors...
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Not to sound overly reactionary or anything but.....is your battery disconnected right now? If not, would you calmly RUN and disconnect it until you repair the damage?
That looks like that wire took a lot more current (amps) than it should have and basically cooked the insulation off the wire. I'd find out what that runs to and see what's going on. I'd also definitely pull the rest of the harness to see if any other damage happened to any adjacent wires.
Yeah First thing I did. I don't want to see her go up in Smoke...
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Ok cool.
Ohh yeah and what's with the silver/copper wires with clear insulation? Is that something you added? Is that about the time you started experiencing problems? If so....time to retrace your steps.
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Yeah, somethings been added to that connector. It should have an orange, red, dark brown with white stripe, and a light brown with white stripe.
The light brown wire with the white stripe comes from the alternator. The brown wire from the alternator goes to CX of the bulkhead connector. Then from interior cx the light brown white stripe wire goes to the ignition switch.
Now you need to fix that wire. Then figure out what the heck those other two wires are doing. They should come out because I don't think they're fuse protected.
You know in the mid 80's you could pick these cars up for practically nothing, so people didn't think twice before doing surgical "repairs".
That light brown wire with the white stripe doesn't look like it's fuse protected or have a fusible link protecting it. It goes straight from the alternator to that place in the ignition switch.
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Ok cool.
Ohh yeah and what's with the silver/copper wires with clear insulation? Is that something you added? Is that about the time you started experiencing problems? If so....time to retrace your steps.
Speaker wire. Re run from the trunk.
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Yeah, somethings been added to that connector. It should have an orange, red, dark brown with white stripe, and a light brown with white stripe.
The light brown wire with the white stripe comes from the alternator. The brown wire from the alternator goes to CX of the bulkhead connector. Then from interior cx the light brown white stripe wire goes to the ignition switch.
Now you need to fix that wire. Then figure out what the heck those other two wires are doing. They should come out because I don't think they're fuse protected.
You know in the mid 80's you could pick these cars up for practically nothing, so people didn't think twice before doing surgical "repairs".
That light brown wire with the white stripe doesn't look like it's fuse protected or have a fusible link protecting it. It goes straight from the alternator to that place in the ignition switch.
The wires are exactly as desribed. Red Orange, Brown w/ white stripe, Tan whit stripe. are the orange and Brown w/ white stripe suppossed to be in the same slot? I am all ears when it come to fixing it. Where do I begin???
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I think it has something to do with the voltage regulator and or the volt gauge. If so is there a way I can bypass the old wire and run a new one. The rest of the harness looks pretty good. I followed the large group of multi colored wires I diddn't see any other breaks or burns for that matter. The brown/white wire are connected to the thick orange wire in the picture. My service manual is all in Blk and wht and I can't read half of it. God I need to by a real manual with Colors...
The volt gauge is a two prong connector in a different section of the harness.
What I would do for the repair is this...cut the section that is totally toasted out and splice in a wire of the same thickness/gauge. Use shrink wrap AFTER soldering the connection to protect it from grounding out against something and causing a short circuit/fire. You should be able to remove the metal prong from the plastic connector using a small bladed flat screwdriver.
But I'm not sure that brown wire with white stripe should be tied in at all to that orange wire. In fact I want to say it shouldn't be. Let me check under my dash when I get home to confirm that - its been a while since I tinkered under the dash so my memory is a bit fuzzy.
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Thanks I appreciate it. The only reason I thought it was tied into the volt gauge is because when I unplugged it from the steering column when I noticed the burn, the volt gauge wasn't showing any voltage. Worked before that.
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One problem at a time. Considering that the brown wire with white stripe is currently fried we need to correct that first before jumping to other avenues. Otherwise, you'll just go nuts tracing down these electrical gremlins. I know, I'm still getting rid of the last few in mine.....
- highbeam indicator doesn't work - new circuit and new bulb....going to look at it again once it gets nice and warm (and dry out - car is sitting on dirt/mud right now)
- one of my turn signal indicators in the gauge pod is stuck on when the lights get turned on. I think this is because of a grounding issue and I think I might have the solution.
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That connector is correct other than the speaker wires. The orange wire and the light brown with the white stripe do come together at that point.
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The Speaker wires only appear to be with that connector. they are not involved in this issue. How do I go about fixing the brown w/ white wire that is fried?
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The Speaker wires only appear to be with that connector. they are not involved in this issue. How do I go about fixing the brown w/ white wire that is fried?
Like Brian said. Cut out the bad part and splice in new wire of the same gauge. Or, pick up another dash harness off ebay and use it as a spare depot for stuff you need.
But I would spice it first before I put in a wire from a different harness....just to be sure you've got the cause of the wire burning fixed.
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Just so I am clear All I need to do Is trace down the end of the Brown w/white stripe and splice in a new piece. That sounds like no problem, however I can'tfind the end of it, which makes it difficult to fix. Where should it end at. Do I need to remove the fuse block to view it?
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Just so I am clear All I need to do Is trace down the end of the Brown w/white stripe and splice in a new piece. That sounds like no problem, however I can'tfind the end of it, which makes it difficult to fix. Where should it end at. Do I need to remove the fuse block to view it?
You might have to. It's goes into the interior end of the bulkhead connector. You can see the bulkhead connector on the firewall in the engine compartment.
You shouldn't have to trace it all the way back....just keep tracing until you don't see anymore burned wire. On the other hand, it would be nice to see the wire all the way back to the bulkhead connector just to make sure you don't have more than one burned area.
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Roger That! I'll go and check it out right now and see if I can get it sorted out. Thanks for the help...
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Come to think of it, I would also inspect the brown wire from the alternator back to the bulkhead connector too.
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Okay so I traced the wire down. It was fried to the fuse block. I got 18 gauge wire and made a new run to the panel and back to the red, orange and tan wire cluster. I'm done for today. I need to solder the orange and my new wire to each other. I wish I could find the electrical clips that are the same as the originals. I can't find them anywhere and then I wouldn't have to solder it. Oh well more news tomorrow. Thanks for the help.
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Correction, not the fuseblock, but the bulkhead... ;)
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That light brown wire with the white stripe remains a single into the bulkhead, doesn't it? I think without rally gauges there's two wires at that bulkhead connector.
Anyway, I've been thinking about your problem. What I would do is try to pass a wire through an empty slot in the bulkhead connector. There should be room. Once I got a wire through, I would crimp an eyelet to the engine side and connect that in place of the current brown wire. Then I would pull the orange wire out of the connector and solder the other end of that alternator wire to it. That way, you're bypassing all the burned stuff.
Tape the new wire along with the wire harness that already goes to the bulkhead connector from the engine side. And tape the new wire to the orange wire on the interior side.
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Yes the Brown Wire was a single going to the connector at the bulkhead. The wire itself was burned to the connnector so I went ahead and removed the fuse block to get to it. When I removed the connector from the slot CX it was fine so I pulled a whole new run from there and re-soldered the new wire with the Orange wire. Everything else seems to be looking fine.
I just got your new post, so what I'll do is go back and make the changes you suggested and let you know how it goes when I'm done. I want to get this done and fire it up to make sure everything is going to work properly. Thanks again...
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I think that brown wire is for the field circuit going to the alternator.
Mine was fried like that too which is one of the reason's I replaced the whole wiring harness under the dash (along with 4-5 other cuts in the harness).
Anyway, when I started my car before I replaced the harness, I would have to gun the engine to get the alternator to start charging.
Thats probably why you are having a battery drain.
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Yes the Brown Wire was a single going to the connector at the bulkhead. The wire itself was burned to the connnector so I went ahead and removed the fuse block to get to it. When I removed the connector from the slot CX it was fine so I pulled a whole new run from there and re-soldered the new wire with the Orange wire. Everything else seems to be looking fine.
I just got your new post, so what I'll do is go back and make the changes you suggested and let you know how it goes when I'm done. I want to get this done and fire it up to make sure everything is going to work properly. Thanks again...
Don't change what you did. I think the way you did it would work. Yes, that's the field circuit Eagle. I forgot you had problems with that.
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Well I am happy to inform that I changed out the bad wire and I think it may have fixed a few of the other problems I had. My fan stops running when I shut the car down. My windows no longer work without the key in the ignition. There are no longer any burns in any of the runs and while I was at it I re taped any of the runs under the dash that looked rough. Thanks for all the help. I hope this isn't just a short term fix, but a long term one.