Hitman's Pontiac Trans Am Forum
Trans Am Photos => Trans Am Photos => Topic started by: osso12 on August 10, 2012, 06:56:19 PM
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Guys I am reaching out for help. In turn I will help you. I have been unemployed for over 2.5 years now as I was laid off. I have not been able to obtain work. My passion like many of you, is second gen ta's. Mine is both TA's and first gen camaros. I have loved them since the age of 16. A few of you have no idea what it takes to restore one of these vehicles. Some do, some don't. I know how to do it, and what I am not physically able to do, I can sub in house, or out of house. Shop rate since I am getting started is $50 an hour flat. That is cheaper than most classic shops, but low enough to be affordable to MOST. A little on my back ground, I have learned a lot by myself. I am 48 and still able to do a lot of things on my own and have enough sense about me to know when I need help on a situation. I started tearing into 1968 camaros all the way down since I was 16. I can do fairly well at paint and body. I do my own work. It would just be me, and my 26 year old daughter to do parts chasing and phone calls. I can post pics of what I have accomplished on my own, or can accomplish by my resources I have around me.
Admins, please leave this post up as I desperately need assistance here. I have looked today at a 2 and a half car bay that would give me plenty of room to start. It is $500 a month, with a $500 deposit. If I can get some work coming in, I can rent the building. Its a one year lease, and I would have to sign a one year contract. Electricity and water would be separate. I may have to get a certificate of occupancy from the city not sure on that. I have my own tools, power tools and everything to work on one of these cars. I have jack stands for now. These will not be frame off UNLESS you require it and allow me the time to do it right. I want to only do factory type 1977-1979 Ta's for now. I do not want to get into custom work at the moment. Just normal interior, paint and body, and mechanical s. I am in Dallas Texas. Currently I own my own lawn mower repair/ go kart repair shop out of my home but it is way to slow to eat off of. This car business would at least help me manage to live or survive at least until I can get my settlement check. I have seen many drivable cars starting at 3k and up. But instead of buying cars up front, I would rather lets see what can of work I can get (if any) from you guys until I can get a site up and firmly started. I have to start somewhere. I started my mower business on CL. I would rather start Trans Am of Dallas on here and test the waters to see if this is what I am able to do or not. Its where my heart is, and I think I can bring the community and the public a decent service. I do not claim to know everything about 77-79 tas. I have owned them but do not claim to be an authority no more than I would on a 1968 camaro, even though I have owned nine of them. As we go along I would like to keep this thread open so I can get feedback from YOU guys as well as to how we are doing. I have sent an email out to Rick @ trans am specialty about buying parts from them as I know these guys are the tops! Please. Let me help you by you helping me. I need to take that "next step" as this is the only way I know how. I quit a job in 2004 to do this very same thing, but I had a buddy that was going to finance the operation abandon ship after I had quit my job. I am taking another step. Please help if you can, and please do not let this be a negative thread of "Don't do this," or "This is not a good idea" and so on. I hear that all the time and have heard enough of that. This is a quest for your trust and business. Thanks.
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I took this car..
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/Mystic%20Angel/63fb_12.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/Mystic%20Angel/d454_12.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/Mystic%20Angel/000_0255.jpg)
The white stuff is just polishing stuff.
and by myself and only myself did this with it. It was my first car to paint. It was not intended to be a show car by any means.
The hood is not bolted on just resting
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/Mystic%20Angel/000_0251.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/Mystic%20Angel/000_0226.jpg)
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wish you were in Fla
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Thanks for the kind words Joe d. This is my FIRST paint and while no, it still can use improvement I feel it is better than what was done with Flounders car. He had cracks in the bumper, looked like they "tried" to buff his bumper.... I have no idea what they did but from what I can see... it looks like they either took the simple way out or did not not even try to do a decent paint job! I have bought paint jobs from maaco for $300 and looked better than BAB! I am only speaking from truth.
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sorry.. I had accidently posted in the wrong thread. It belongs here. I will delete the other sorry for the confusion and thanks flounder for heads up!
Another ref.
I was able to take this wrecked 68 camaro.. and single handedly...
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/old%20camaros/68_second_car_2.jpg)
turn it into this... this is the SAME car:
(I was 21 years old at this time)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/old%20camaros/me20.jpg)
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This nasty 327 compartment and engine :
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/old%20camaros/ae_3f.jpg)
Into this freshened up compartment and 468 big block:
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/Pepe%20Le%20Pew/DSC00740.jpg)
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This car:
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/Pepe%20Le%20Pew/50_3.jpg)
Transformed into this car:
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/Pepe%20Le%20Pew/DSC00827.jpg)
(same car as above)
I feel like if nothing else I have a decent eye for things.
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wish you were in Fla
X2
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Im still thinkin out of the box here. What kind of work yall guys needing? You can ship last time I checked, pretty much any car from fla to texas for about $300..... we could always double check on the shipping.
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joe d, check your PM.
This is one that I was going to restore on my own. The only reason that I sold it was because I had title issues. The guy I bought it from had lied to me and told me he had a clear title which he did not. I paid probably more than it was worth at 5k.. but it is a real W72 T-top 4 speed ws6 SE. The only thing I did to this car was "clean" the seats up a bit.
I never really got into removing panels, etc as I wanted to get the title issue straight. Since i sold it WITHOUT a title I sold it for 2k. This car with about 3 years work ( keep in mind I dont have a "real' job) could have been a 26k easily.
I think we can get you want you want. It might not be a documented SE, but we can build anything BAB is doing and THEN some... I have no doubt in my mind about that.
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/TA%20sale/Picture003.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/TA%20sale/Picture011.jpg)
only thing I did was clean the seats up. I did not replace the covers as they were original and in pretty good shape.
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/79%20Y84%20TA/Picture008-1.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/79%20Y84%20TA/Picture009-1.jpg)
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Not trying to start crap, but the seats look to be dyed. I have dyed some seats at my car lot and, I mean I've never seen them clean from Grayish to Black.
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I have started looking for cars anywhere between Dallas and the west coast of CA. I am looking anywhere from lets say $2,500 to $5,000 as a candidate.
Ill post some that I think are good candidates. This one in particular is in Ca, but the guy has not responded with text or any other info on it. You might give him a call as the car looks pretty straight and he is only asking $3,500 for it. We could get it for $3,000 I am quite sure.
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/cto/3159208726.html
(http://images.craigslist.org/5G95Q25M53K23Ie3M7c7n97e8b4ed5d00146f.jpg)
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In the process of cleaning up a buddy's 88-89 IROC wheels for his S-10 PU. Driver, not show quality.....For FREE. LOL!
Before:
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/IMG_27341.jpg)
During:
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/IMG_27331.jpg)
After:
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/IMG_27361.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/IMG_27351.jpg)
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I will paint your Second Gen TA for $2,500. That includes paint and body work. Does not include any sheet metal replacement, or major rust issues or major damage. IE, the car needs to be close to paint or in decent straight shape. I use PPG paint and clears. I will honer this only by pre-inspection of the vehicle before hand and not by pics alone. This includes the cost of labor and materials. I am in Dallas, Tx. If you would like me to consider your vehicle please send me a picture first, and of any areas of major concern. This also will include a full cut and buff, but you would need to leave the car with me long enough to cure before any cut (color sand) and buff. If we are doing any solid colors such as red, black, white.. non metallics I will pull doors, fenders, hood, trunk and paint off the car and all jambs. IF it is a metallic color I will do the jambs, but all fenders, hoods, trunk lids will be painted the same time as the body is. Hope that makes sense.
Just trying to help out here.
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no pm here
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2,500 will hardly cover the material cost , i charge around 8,000 and im on the cheap side, hope it works out for you good luck on your new business venture
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Thanks Homer. The blue 68 I painted was using PPG and included pretty much everything I needed as far as materials except for a few things. I had right at $800 in a gallon of paint and clear, and about a bout $300 in paper and so forth. That is $1,100.
Depending on how straight the body is, (that is why I mentioned close to paint) I should not need much in any kind of fillers or compounds for polishing that I need. Anything out of the $1,000 that is left over is on me. Yes, I am working for peanuts but this is how I choose to do it for now, or at least on the first couple of cars to see how it goes. Labor IS expensive, that is why I want to help people that are willing to give me a chance on the work. The black 68 you see above we did for $2500 and that was about 7 years ago or so. That car was not cut or buffed out, and it had some small orange peel, but came out looking fairly well, and the paint job I would consider better than driver quality. I do not think paint has went up that MUCH in the last couple of years since I last checked. I can do it for $2,500. It will not have any runs or orange peel when I am done either.
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Just painted my TA with PPG and had under $800 in paint, clear, body filler, and such. Then again, I had only 2 minor dents to attend to and no rot. Rot or previous hack jobs is where you can lose your shirt.
A friend I know that owns a good shop had a guy bring in a very nice '69 rs/ss conv. camaro. While the owner was driving down the road the hood came on pinned and slammed up on the windshield. So, really the only damage was the hood, windshield and some other minor things. The rest of the car was absolutely awesome. The owener wanted to have the whole car stripped and repainted. The painter tried to talk him out saying the car was fine and he'd get the paint to match 100%. Well, the painter gave in and had the car media blasted. Seriously the car had to have about 20 gallons of bondo. There was so much rot in the rear even the inner panel that held the interior in place were bondo'd!!! It was so bad, bodymen all around came out to look at the car and couldn't beleive it. They had all seen the car before it was stripped and wouldn't believe it was the same car. So, a simple strip and repaint that was to take about a month ended up in a years worth of work and thousands of dollars later.
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Thanks bro. You can loose your a** real quick.. I am aware of that. Media blasting can be scary. I have had it done to my cars. The one that ran into the pole was media blasted before paint. Sounds like in that particular situation you mentioned, the painter should be responsible for getting the car back like it was prior to the accident, but not to go and media blast it before the second repaint, as he did not media blast it before he painted it the first time. Foolish on his part. Thanks for update on the paint cost.. So I was right on par. If for example I get a car from a customer they feel is 90% ready to shoot and I see it and discover a foot of bondo on the door. Its up to the customer at that point. Its on them OR they can sign a waiver that they choose NOT to fix the area in question, or they can tell me whether they wanna dynaglass it, patch it, reskin it, or other method. $50 an hour to correct the issue (plus cost of sheet metal) then we go from there. If anyone would like to take me up on this offer, I will require 1/2 ($1,250) once the car is delivered and I have had a small chance to inspect the car. The other half ($1,250) I will require right prior to shooting of the car with the top coat. I do not know how to make it any fairer then that. I can take paypal or cash either one. If I take paypal I will need $16.00 per each paypal trans action.
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osso, i am sure you will find many hesitant people to give you $1250 upon dropping the cr off an the the balance before you shoot the top coat, wich means he/she will have to be at your shop at paint time, the question "any fairer than that" would be
$1250 down and the balance upon satisfaction. you have already covered you material cost plus approx $200 or so and as you stated the car is already 90% and ready for paint so in essence you have scuff time, tape time and booth time
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Good point Joe. When I do large jobs where I have a lot of money out, this is normally what I do too.
osso, no the painter that painted it a 2nd time wasn't the one that painted it the first time. The 2nd painter is well seasoned and knows what to look for. This car totally caught him. He got it right but he had over $3000 in body parts alone. They ended up buying a parts car to fix the "good" car. This is how much bodywork was in it. Again, no one that ever inspected the car ever thought there was that much filler. It was lazer straight. Even the wheel lips were done to the point they looked solid.
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osso, i am sure you will find many hesitant people to give you $1250 upon dropping the cr off an the the balance before you shoot the top coat, wich means he/she will have to be at your shop at paint time, the question "any fairer than that" would be
$1250 down and the balance upon satisfaction. you have already covered you material cost plus approx $200 or so and as you stated the car is already 90% and ready for paint so in essence you have scuff time, tape time and booth time
My response to the payment up front. This is not as HOMER mentioned a $8,000 project. Its a $2,500 PAINT JOB only. You can see by the dialog, that I am not making really anything at all off of this idea. I already mentioned that I have to come up with $1,000 up front to even get a building. I mentioned I am out of work. The half down would give me the first months rent only. With that, I would have to hustle to get the car ready in a month. I dont have an other job to pull me away from the project so that means I am only about a half a mile away from the building. I could put in as many hours as it takes to get the car ready to shoot. The blue car you see that I painted was shot in my driveway. I wont shoot in my driveway anymore. I COULD, but I wont. I have access to garages from family members around me if in a worse case scenario. neighbor has one, mom has one, and my brother has a garage. The money prior to shoot guarantees me final payment. All the monies prior to the shoot would have been exhausted of course. I will guarantee the car has no orange peel, no runs, and will look like a driver quality paint job. I do not guarantee it to be a $8,000 paint job has homer says it cost him. I am not sure if he is talking about it cost him $8k to restore his car or just $8k to paint it. This will not be a motor pull, tranny pull, a interior pull. It will be a paint job. Two totally different things. I do not call a paint job a "restoration" I know all the terms and how they can be used incorrectly or confuse others such as BAD did. You want a Frame off restoration? Fine. Pay me restoration costs and give me about two years or more to do it. Save yourself some money and ship me all the parts required and I will charge only labor.
Ok, time for some more pics. You don't think I have the skills to pull a frame? No problem there.
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(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/old%20camaros/Image13.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/old%20camaros/Image16.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/old%20camaros/me19.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/old%20camaros/parts1.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/old%20camaros/68_third_Car_interior_1.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/AC%20REF/DSC00008.jpg)
Do you have sugar in your gas tank? No problem! I know just what to do to get it running again!
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/Pepe%20Le%20Pew/SUGAR%20IN%20TANK/DSC00862.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/Pepe%20Le%20Pew/SUGAR%20IN%20TANK/DSC00966.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/Pepe%20Le%20Pew/SUGAR%20IN%20TANK/DSC00925.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/Pepe%20Le%20Pew/SUGAR%20IN%20TANK/DSC00926.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/Pepe%20Le%20Pew/SUGAR%20IN%20TANK/intake.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/Pepe%20Le%20Pew/SUGAR%20IN%20TANK/cap2.jpg)
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Want your firewall smoothed out? We can manage to get it done!
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/Mystic%20Angel/DSC01270.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/Mystic%20Angel/DSC01641.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/Mystic%20Angel/DSC01531.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/Mystic%20Angel/DSC01546.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/Mystic%20Angel/DSC01652.jpg)
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i mean i charge 8,000 for a paint job,this is what i do for a living for 11 years now, as for full resto, i dont do , but i have around twenty in mine, not counting my free labor
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thats waht i figured, we have a few shops here in town that get $5500 to squirt it after who knows how much to get it to the blocking stage
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Bro.. just seen your cars! Awesome candidates! They look very straight from pics. Any cancers? Fla prices must be way higher than texas prices...
Maaco here will squirt a car for $300 and they are pro painters that squirt.. Its just there paint the use is kinda lame and they do not do any prep at all.
They squirt well, but they leave dirt, bubbles, debris in the paint.... That 79 you picked up.. is it supposed to dark blue metallic/nocturne blue?
I had a nocturne blue 79 with camel leather interior and cars and concepts T Tops....
Id love to buy that 80 SE off of you but i noticed you dont have my engine. LOL.
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Homer... Understood bro! Your car looks incredible! You have $20k in parts for a "paint job' though if I understand you correctly? Or $20k for parts that you put into your "paint job" to get it to look the way it does now?
Sorry if I don't make any sense. Its not intentional. lol.
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Homer I think I get what you are saying. You have $20k in parts to get your car to the level that it is now... With your free labor.. So you have $0 in labor...and $20k in parts. And I "assume" but that $20k in parts that was spent is in interior pieces, drive train pieces, and other mechanicals.
And you "charge" other folks for a $8,000 for a paint job. I think I understand now. Please correct me where I am wrong or misunderstanding.
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sounds like at the end of the day if homers car was a client it would be about a $60k restoration, i know Thorntons gets $100k and you supply the car
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Homer.. just curious.. You mention $2,500 wont cover the cost of materials...
You have been doing Paint and body work since you were 18. I have been tearing down cars since I was 16... as seen by my pics....
I have NOT been painting cars since I was 16 however. I am now 48.... Evidently materials are WAY higher in lets say florida than Texas... which is more reason to let me help you floridians out. If you dont mind, If I gave you $2,500 of my own money for Materials... what materials would that buy me to get started? Could you give me a professional break down on this. I trust your judgement here.
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sounds like at the end of the day if homers car was a client it would be about a $60k restoration, i know Thorntons gets $100k and you supply the car
Well.. Thats why I am here. I am fairly confident while my quality might not be a $60k restoration.. we can all agree with that.... BUT... I ask you this.. Just by the pics I have shown... This was just done in my driveway! If I had a building, do you not think I could do just a "little" bit better than BAB?
You be the judge in all fairness.... Even if you gave me $15k up front like many have done with Bob the bandit.. and EVEN if I had to find you a car that you are comfortable in working with.. Do you think what you would get back would be ANYWHERE near the car that BOB sent flounder? And this is just ME doing all the labor! No employees! Just ME and materials and something over my head to work out of. None of the above photos that I have posted where meant to be show quality or for ME to win any car show. Could I win a local car show? Debatable! But you cannot argue that I take pride in what I can accomplish on my own, with little to nothing ( a hot driveway in 100 degree heat) to work with. I am not promising a $60k restoration for $2,500. No way! But I WILL promise that you will be happy with what I turn out, or I am NOT happy until you are happy. Unlike BAB... Once we get started I will post DAILY pics in THIS thread... of any progress made. DAILY. You will see the car that is being worked on. If you allow me to purchase a car on your behalf (whole different story) you and only you will hold the title. NOT me. ITS YOUR CAR. You pick the car, buy the car... or Ill buy it on your behalf the one YOU Decide on. The title will be sent to you. Once we agree on the work to be performed and as long as I can manage to get my $1,000 down and $500 a month plus utilities building taken care of (I have to sign a YEAR lease) so I have to have enough work ahead or enough deposits to cover the building.. That is the ONLY reason I ask for the $1,250 up front is to ensure you have a building for us to work on your car. I could do it in my driveway..
But... I dont want to work out of my drive way......Just a little help and trust goes a long way. BOB the bandit has SHOWN what he can do and what he DOES now. As far as his quality that he did 8 years ago? I honestly do not know. I Do now that now he is taking in $16k for cars...... and giving you back a $6k to $7k car depending on how much he spent out of pocket for interior pieces etc. Team, help ME and FLOUNDER put this BAB crap behind us. I do NOT want to be another BAB! We can do this I know. But it takes your help and trust. I don't want your MONEY as much as I want your trust and business FIRST.
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for starters a gallon of epoxy primer + hardner =150 ish
ncp 275 surfacer/primer 350 ish gallon with hardner
average cost of gallon of dbc =800-1000 depends on color
dt 870 reducer arpund 80 a gallon
dc 4000 clear around 300 a gallon with hardner
sand paper ,masking tape, masking paper polish
and dont forget to factor electric and other utilities
not quite 2500 but you get the idea , not much room for profit ,and like someone else said , theres always the hidden damage to account for .
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and yes i been painting since i was 18 i grew up in a body shop, im ase certified painter , ppg certified for deltron paint (dbc) ppg certified for envirobase paint also
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for starters a gallon of epoxy primer + hardner =150 ish
ncp 275 surfacer/primer 350 ish gallon with hardner
average cost of gallon of dbc =800-1000 depends on color
dt 870 reducer arpund 80 a gallon
dc 4000 clear around 300 a gallon with hardner
sand paper ,masking tape, masking paper polish
and dont forget to factor electric and other utilities
not quite 2500 but you get the idea , not much room for profit ,and like someone else said , theres always the hidden damage to account for .
Thanks Bro! That came out to $17 k... Paper is $300 give or take?
Again.. you can see not much profit. What would I do with the $500? Pay the Rent on the building....
I do NOT expect to make any profit other than maybe help with some of my bills.. Any real profit the first TWO years will be best put into the business for better tools, lifts, etc..... From 2 years forward if we get any business we can work on hiring a employee or two. The first two years i will work alone and possibly a buddy or two pitch in here and there IF they want to. Again, I am working for peanuts as you proved. The goal here? Not to get rich but put BAB out of business with what limited resources we can.
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and your right gotta start somewhere i used to do them alot cheaper than i do now, got my name out there more business ,then got to charge more, i have taken many losses on jobs i under estimated, you learn as you go
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i agree whole heartedly that you can paint and well enough to please most customers and of course without dropping $2500 on materials as we all know if you agree to paint a car for $2500 it will not have $1300 worth of dbc but maybe $300 worth of nason select or along those lines. i would love to see some of your work Homer if you have a link or website, you as well osso. by the way, what about a booth, here in Pinellas county thye will not issue any new booths, my guy is sharing a shop with a butcher because he needs the booth, i offered to open a better shop but they will not allow a new booth so need an existing
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by the way, what about a booth, here in Pinellas county thye will not issue any new booths, my guy is sharing a shop with a butcher because he needs the booth, i offered to open a better shop but they will not allow a new booth so need an existing
Its all about knowing laws, local laws, city laws... what a business has to have.. Most paint and body shops.. a Booth is a requirement. Most people don't know that you can paint a car in the driveway legally and get away with it either. I do not recommend doing that BTW... You can...but your neighbors will hate you for it. Prepping a car and getting it ready you do not need a booth to do so....
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After doing some soul searching last night.. we might as well forget about this pipe dream of mine.
Why have I given up so early? Its not so much about giving up. The inspiration comes from way down deep inside me somewhere. Its more than just a passion to simply own one of these TAs. But looking realistic at it... I probably have 75% in me that can labor out what it takes, and another 20% id would be relying on out sourcing for doing simple things that I can do, I just don't LIKE doing. That would be only one issue. The main issue I see is that no one out there is gonna loan me money to get started. I have decided it would be futile to go to family over this as they would discourage me anyway. I am broke as a joke for awhile yet. I have to sign a years lease on the 2 car bay building up front. That means I have to obligate myself to a full year to start this. Its a bit risky at best considering I do not have the $500 for the first months rent, nor the $500 deposit. I would need at least $1,000 up front, and would probably a certificate of occupancy with the city which is around a $100... then you have water and electric on top of that which I do not know how much it runs. I have enough tools and raw materials to get started on a project though.
If I do decide to do this, I need to do it right and not in a way that is gonna jeopardize me losing the building for the first year. I did not check to see what penalty there is for reneging on a contract. So... Acquiring the building would be the first step. I don't have the $1,000 up front, and there is no sense in trying to use money from the work coming in. That is a major mistake I know and don't wanna go there. We have to ask ourselves the question. What is a reasonable amount of time to paint a car? My black 68 I was told two weeks. It took nearly 2 years. And that was with a professional shop doing it. They did not spend that much time on the car, but between insurance jobs coming in, they would not work on it. I am going to peek at the pics to see how long it took me to paint the blue camaro out in my driveway. Ok just a quick glance...the dates on the camera are wrong... Looking back at it, I got the car on a summer month like in june.... I had it in paint by december because I was worried about cold settling in.. So id say 6 months is more than reasonable to work with. So if we say 6 months... $3,500 we would need just for the building alone... Then we have to look at the liability factor of painting WITHOUT a paint booth. Can we do it without a booth? Sure. At least until a city official comes nosing around on the property. So really this is all just a crap shoot pipe dream. I am not going out on the limb and borrow the money. I have A1 credit, but no income. Sorry I have waisted your guys time, I just don't see it happening. If someone can see something I may not see, feel free to let us know. It possible that when and if I get my settlement check and If I dont spend it all on a TA or something I might continue to look into this venture. We will see but can't make any promises.
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If you have a skill there is always going to be someone that will want to take advantage of it. Do you know anyone that has extra space? In my case, I have a good friend who has enough space for me to do my work. In return, I have painted his motorcycle and his 8N tractor. I throw him some money for electricity every now and then and things are good. This is an ideal situation since I don't have to sign a lease or pay rent. It would have to be a good person that you know well or things might not go very smooth. You don't want to turn their place into a junk yard, and you also don't want to get taken advantage of. Just a thought for you.
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Thanks bro for the comment. Well.. I do.. But I dont wanna intrude ya know?
My house originally did have a garage. It got turned into a den where I am actually typing this from. There has been some talks back and forth with me and family members (my daughter wants to help me with the business) about opening up this area again and put the garage back where it was. Would not cost a whole lot, just knock the walls down and put the door back. I might research that idea more. Thanks for the thought. My neighbor has a single car garage where she has stored a 67 camaro since it was new. Its the only thing in there, and I do not see her letting go of that car anytime soon. She has a double car garage in the back yard....... has mainly some shelves and stuff...
again.. its all hers and dont wanna intrude... My brother has a double car garage.... he keeps his 1999 Mustang Cobra convertible parked in there...... The other half is used for storage... again.. dont wanna intrude there.....
My mom..... has a double car garage and then some but it has a 1985 Z28 convertible that I will inherit (dont have a place for it) one day.. It stays on the battery tender 7 days a week... It needs a new top so I don't see it leaving the garage anytime soon. They are in the process of selling the house... so again I do not want to intrude.... There is a storage building complex across the street from me. The problem is, they don't want you trying to run a business out of it let alone paint a car...there is no electricity anyway.... I could PROBABLY get away with starting on some cars in my driveway.... I could hold at least FOUR cars...... as long as they have license plates on them, the city cant do anything about it.....but again as I type this its 91 outside in the dallas heat and will be 100 by probably 2 pm and stay 100 until about 7:30 tonight.. so its way to hot in the driveway at the moment of even thinking of doing something like this. IF I had enough TRUE genuine interest in this, I would push my folks to loan me the money to help kick start this if we could come up with a plan. If they knew I had a good plan for this, they would help.. if they seen it was a reasonable decision on my part...and if they knew I had legitimate work lined up. Yes, I know its hard for any shop to keep a float.... I looked at one time into getting the capitol for lifts, lease on a building for at least two years... capitol to buy at least 6 cars..... tools.. computers... came up to needing about 170k for upstart....
Now whos gonna loan a layed off individual that can't score a job $170k for a start up business. Absolutely no one. So I have researched this doing what I would call the "BEST" way...... Just aint gonna happen.. and even if I COULD get $170k for upstart.... I would be more focused on repaying that loan... so if I am more focused on repaying a loan.. where is the quality? You see, the focus can get changed real quick. Could I turn out a good product for that kind of up start? I have no doubt in my mind on that one. But how long would these cars sit? Lets say I had built
6 bandit clones....and I only wanted $18k for them and they look exceptional. Do we have a market for 6 bandit clones? How long would they sit before sold?
I talked in length with my mom in great detail about all this just yesterday. Her response to me "You should not feel everyone feels the same way you do about these kind of cars." "It is a small niche market" " I fee you would be better off buying old pickups and redoing them." Buy them, paint em, clean em up and flip em for profit" "I feel there would be a better nich market for something like that other then the bandits." "You also have to take in the fact, who is your target audience with money?" "It would be the older generation that has money like I do that would be able to pay for your cars" and that is what mom says. And she is 65. So mom does have some valid points. She supports my dreams... but she does not want for me to make a mistake. She says I get "TOO GUNG Ho" on the camaros and firebirds.. and I told her this. "I am passionate about camaros and firebirds" "So if I am passionate about firebirds and camaros don't you think I would be better off doing those kinda of cars instead of pickups" her answer? "Start wtih something smaller and go up from there." so there ya have it. Right from mom's mouth. If momma aint happy...then no one is happy.
So that brings up a valid point. My target audience. Who are they? Are they just people here on 78ta.com?
Are they 16- 21 year olds? Are they my age group the 40-50 year olds? Do we have a buying target audience?
With watching the BAB threads.. I say WE do. BUT.. even on here is limited. What other resources can we tap?
Craigslist? neh. Only maybe after we got started on projects or ready to sell something would we look to CL.
Ebay? eh...... Until BAB is out of the way...then NO. I do NOT want to follow in BAB foot steps in anyway.
Elz, the garage Idea is a good one though. I am going to look more into that, and maybe speak with family on that one as it is a avenue that has been brought up before. Preciate it.
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if your a decent painter, try to get a job spraying some cars. maybe at a maaco or small shop.
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I understand & hear your passion. Sometimes passion will not pay the bills. With what your are proposing, sounds like to me that you would be just trading & moving dollars around. No real profit in the bank.
Let me hit you with this....
With your skills, have you ever considered a "rent a mechanic"? Or as in the medical field it would be called a "traveling Mechanic"?
For instance Joe blow has "x" needed done to his Trans Am. You show up, live with the person paying the bills, work on or restore the car to mutual satisfaction & then go to the next job or home to TX.
Granted Joe Blow needs to be able to provide you with certain things to do the job, plus room & board & meals too. Hopefully you get the idea.
Wanna make a trip to WV to test it out?
Stan
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good idea stan, i agree with you Osso as you should not try to start a business with an empty wallet as the risk is to great for your loss, i would seriously consider calling around to see if someone will hire you freelance to spray their cars even if you have to pro-bono one to convince
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Stan, thanks for the offer bro. I have seen your project and you need to move forward with it, and go ahead and spray that bad boy! What are you waiting for? Thanks Joe for the other ideas. While I have you on the peg board... Are you at all interested in selling that Nocturne Blue you have? just curious? Ill be looking for one one of these days... I just got a letter today and I go to court Oct 25th... So that may change some things around as well. Its not a bad Idea.. I might be able to pick up some local work around here. Anyone on 78.ta that is close that might can give me some chance? Might put up a barter on CL or something. That might not be a too bad of an Idea.
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yeah cl is always an option, my nocturne is a 28k car with close to zero rust so she is getting a nut and bolt resto, but i am doing the se and the madmax t/a first, plus i started a resto-mod shortbed chevy truck so the nocturne is sleeping quietly under the covers
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resto mod short bed chevy is on my list also , just gotta find one lol
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resto mod short bed chevy is on my list also , just gotta find one lol
Thats funny.. I like em.. but I don't care to drive em.
I have had nine 1968 camaros, 3 second gen TA's, a 69 ford fairlane 428 cobra jet, four third gen camaros, a 68 beetle, 2 VW Scirrocco's
a Jetta TDI, a fourth gen Trans Am, and a 1990 Mazda B220 Pickup. Other than the 93 beater pickup truck I drive at the present, the mazda is the only other truck I have owned. As you can see by my list, I am more of a car person. LOL
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im more of a custom truck guy if i get time i will post up my last one i built
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i would like to see that, i to do not like to drive them so i am debating a rack and pinion
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im more of a custom truck guy if i get time i will post up my last one i built
please do.
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it was a 95 s-10 i custom built the back half of the frame had air ride front back and side to side, smoothed the interior panels and painted to match
(http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp90/NICKILYNN16/cars%20i%20painted/s-102.jpg)
(http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp90/NICKILYNN16/cars%20i%20painted/m_7ba7f98c1c03efb970f372ffd6ab915d.jpg)
(http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp90/NICKILYNN16/cars%20i%20painted/s10interior.jpg)
and here is a camaro i did not to long ago
(http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp90/NICKILYNN16/cars%20i%20painted/m_aad5de73813f488c9623d64aa37ba90f.jpg)
(http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp90/NICKILYNN16/cars%20i%20painted/m_2ab5af7eb3cf4ea889d7f9ef78a04235.jpg)
not the best pics but i dont take many
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nice
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not to jack my own thread...(its gotta go someplace right ;)) My buddy is doing a daily driver S10..
What I was going to say...those IROC rims we posted earlier in this thread will be for sale if anyone wants em. We still need to clean up the last one, but they are pretty much done. No IROC caps or lugs. Reason I mention this is because he found some Champ 500 clones to go on it. Ill see if I can post a pic.
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(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/IMG_27501.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/IMG_27491.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb156/osso12/IMG_27351.jpg)
He is looking for suggestions on the S10. He simply wants it as a driver but wants to sproof it up a bit with some bling.
I told him to lower it and paint it black and put IROC wheels on it.
Well you see how for the IROC wheels Idea went, and he said he did not want to lower it.
I don't know if he plans on painting it or not. He mentioned spending a $1,000 on a respray??
hum....might be a business proposition for me. LOL!
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def needs lowered
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lower it for sure, paint it millenium yellow and take his $1000
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lower it for sure, paint it millenium yellow and take his $1000
hahaha! he just texted me and said I did not have a garage to paint it in... I told him $500 if he helped me prep it and he said why should the customer do any work? i told him now its $1,000 for refusing the $500 offer! Bottom line neither have a place to squirt it at. I guess this puts this little iron in the fire of mine out...
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I understand & hear your passion. Sometimes passion will not pay the bills. With what your are proposing, sounds like to me that you would be just trading & moving dollars around. No real profit in the bank.
Let me hit you with this....
With your skills, have you ever considered a "rent a mechanic"? Or as in the medical field it would be called a "traveling Mechanic"?
For instance Joe blow has "x" needed done to his Trans Am. You show up, live with the person paying the bills, work on or restore the car to mutual satisfaction & then go to the next job or home to TX.
Granted Joe Blow needs to be able to provide you with certain things to do the job, plus room & board & meals too. Hopefully you get the idea.
Wanna make a trip to WV to test it out?
Stan
I do this, but on a local level most of the time (although I have gone and am willing to go to other states for extended periods). Now I only work non daily driver types of cars, trucks or whatever. Limiting yourself to say just 1st & 2nd gen F bodies starting off will really limit your potential customer base. You need referrals to get going and keep going.
Ignore the whole Build A Bandit type thing and trying to get builds of entire cars. Building/rebuilding an entire car gets way more involved and costs a LOT more than most customers realize. Shops are full of cars being stored while the customer comes up with more money. Meanwhile the shop is paying rent and has the insurance responsibility for the car. Better to do work, get paid, move on, return when customer is ready for more.
If you're gonna paint cars and want to stick to the same body style I'd avoid 2nd gen Trans Ams in the beginning. They are one of the worst cars to do because of all the pieces that should be painted separately. It takes a lot of extra time, materials, and space to do all the pieces and then assemble. Many customers think a paint job is a paint job whether it's a very simple car like a Dodge Dart or a TA. So they won't understand why it should cost a grand more to do a TA than the Dart.
I have a few builds I'm working on at any given time and a steady flow of small jobs doing performance upgrades or restoration type jobs. Some work is done at customers homes/shops, some at my home garage/shop, and some at a commercial shop a bud has with a lift etc. Where I do a particular job (or portion of a job) depends on the customers desires and whether it'd be easier/safer to do a job at a particular place. Labor rates are different depending on location.
I'm in Southeast FL and a lot of people build home shops here. I work for several people who have built home shop areas with various levels of equipment from nothing more than the most minimal of hand tools to fairly well equipped shops where I rarely need to bring anything to the job.
I usually have a couple long term full builds I'm working on at peoples home shops and then fill my schedule with shorter jobs. The owners like that the car is at their home so they're not worried about anything happening to it and they can spend money at a pace they are comfortable with rather than feeling compelled to spend more than they would like to at a particular time. If they don't feel like spending money on or working on the car for a month or two and going away on vacation it isn't a problem. They don't feel obliged to continue having work done to the car because it's at a shop taking up space. I just work somewhere else till they want me back.
It works out well for the car owner who can do whatever work on the car they want to do themselves whenever they want because the car is at their home shop and also have someone else working with them or doing the rest of the work they don't want to do themselves. Having someone else working can really speed up their build.
Works for me because I can be working on lots of cars without storing and being responsible for them while waiting for parts or funds. I get paid when work is done and very little overhead like rent/utilities. When a job takes a lot more time than normal due to problems the customer sees that because they're often there to see the problem so I get paid for my time. In a regular shop environment the shop ends up eating the extra time for some jobs because they don't want to try to justify it to the customer fearing the customer will think they're being ripped off.
I'm currently working on full builds of a Factory Five GTM and a 69 Camaro vert PT build at home shops. With a build like the Camaro I'll take something like the subframe away and strip it, get all the mods done for say a DSE stage 3 setup, paint it, and then bring it back to the customers home shop to reinstall. Meanwhile the owner can be working on something else.
I took a pic at a customers home last week while on lunch break during a complete rewire of a 67 El Camino. There's a 12 car garage/shop in back of the El Camino filled with Tri 5's and late 60's Chevys. This customer prefers to have me just work at his home shop and refuses to leave a car at a regular shop overnight, even if it's me working on it. If I need a lift he'll trailer the car to the shop so I can work on it but will not leave it overnight. Brought it to the shop with a lift for a day so I could do brakes and tomorrow I'm working on it back at his home installing dash/gauges etc.
Like Texas the sun is hot in the summer months so I've got a portable tarp and some strong fans I use if I'm working outside or in a non AC garage. It's cooler where I live near the ocean but it was 97-98 when I took the pic below. With the awning and fans it isn't bad. The full builds I'm working on this summer are both in home garage/shops with AC which is nice, so I try to schedule my work there for the hotter and more humid days.
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/001-36.jpg)
My home shop. Was making custom length plug wires, adjusting valves, and some other underhood work on the Chevelle.
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/007-12.jpg)
I have a couple shop area rooms behind the doors. One for clean work and one for sandblasting, fabrication etc.
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/Garage%20and%20shop/008.jpg)
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/Garage%20and%20shop/006-1.jpg)
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/Garage%20and%20shop/003.jpg)
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/Garage%20and%20shop/MVC-033F.jpg)
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man i love that shop. I think we should start a show us your shop/garage thread. I got some good ideas from you thanks for sharing.
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I am officially jealous now...
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man i love that shop. I think we should start a show us your shop/garage thread. I got some good ideas from you thanks for sharing.
I don't want to hijack this thread. Garage/shop makeover build thread here http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/married-do-not-try-this/27721/page1/