Topic: Full engine rebuild - 1/6/07 Fixed

[rkellerjr]

After a year of painstaking troubleshooting and spending hundreds of dollars it looks like my troubles won't be solved without a full rebuild of the engine.  I'm not going to go into the whys in this thread, let's just agree that it is going to happen.  I've done some quick shopping and calling around today and so far, at a high level, my costs are around $1,500. That gives me the following...

$400 - Engine rebuild kit minus the lifters, CAM and timing chain (These components only have about 5,000 miles on them)
$500-$800 - Machining/Cleaning the block (boring .030) and heads and if needed a complete valve job.
$500 - This will get me a complete tear down of the engine from carb to oil pan and the rebuilding of the engine.  Included is putting the engine on one of those engine stand machines and running/breaking in the engine before I pick it up.

All I have to do is remove the engine from the car, take it down there, pick it up and install it back into the car.  Also, this only gives me the basic setup that I have now with slightly larger pistons.  I'm not sure this is going to give me the horses/torque that I want.

So, this is where you come in.  I'd like to see something around 400 horses with the torque on the upper end of 400.  Is this doable with what I have?  Can I keep my Lunati cam?  Do I have to buy springs and rockers?

Any recommendations on Engine rebuild kits?  Boring?  Heads?  My budget cannot exceed $2,000 and I do plan on spending the $500 for them to tear it down, put it back together, break it in and dyno test it.  I'm not budging on that, I think it's a good investment as I'll have a solid running engine.  Also, I just don't have the room nor the time to do this myself.  I have a full time schedule with classes this sememster so I'll be hard pressed just to pull the engine and re-install it.

One last thing, your going to throw around terms and numbers and I'm not going to have a clue what your saying.  Think of grandma getting on your computer for the first time.  I'm not going to understand bits, bytes and pixel talk when speaking about engines with diameters and vacuum lbs (well, maybe I understand vacuum a little), but you get my point.

Thanks for your time and suggestions!

[Rick]

Well, you've got a 3.73:1 LSD rear, right?  And you've already got headers, correct?  And a decent aftermarket intake manifold too, IIRC.  That leaves the area of cylinder heads for the biggest gain.  You are probably running an 8:1 CR with those 6X heads you have, and you could bump that up to maybe 9:1 through a head casting and piston change and still run pump gas (although you'd need to run the moose pee they sell for premium these days).

Where does your cam produce its peak torque?  With the 3.73:1 rear end you can stand that to happen at a higher RPM than you could if it had the original 3.08:1 rear end, but I wouldn't get too wild with it.  For street/cruising use torque is your friend -- HP is just a sidelight because that's produced at high RPMs anyway.

Otherwise, you are looking at minor gains from careful tweaking of carb and distributor, assuming you have the same cubic inch displacement, or decide to turn to turbo charging or such.

[rkellerjr]

I think I have 3:23 gears Rick.  60mph runs me about 2500rpm with stock tires.

[Joker (§ir£Ğragon)]

What Rick is saying about getting your best power being the heads is dead on. Talk to the machine shop that you plan on using about what they can do in terms of milling them (or at least "resurfacing" them which should be done anyway with as much work as you're doing anyway) and see if they can fit any porting into your budget. Even a mild port job should be enough to help noticably. Also check into and compare pistons with a higher advertised compression ratio and see if you can find any you can afford.

As far as rebuild kits go, I like to stick with FelPro gaskets (had severly bad luck with Detroit head gaskets) and name brand bearings like Federal Mogul, Clevite77 or Speed Pro.

I think you'll be surprised with the results of even just a basic rebuild. Even if you aren't able to do anything to increase your compression rating from what it should be right now or your flow rate just getting the cylinders resealed correctly is an increase in compression in itself over what you actually have now. And stopping any oil fowling that may be occuring is also going to bump the power up.

[poncholvr]

stroker kit- 461 1399.00 on ebay- with your cam-
new springs-
and roller rockers- 130?  thats with in 2000

[rkellerjr]

hehehe, but Poncholvr, I don't have any money for labor now!

[rkellerjr]

Here are the specs on the CAM I currently have.  I wanted to keep it...

Brand: Lunati
Product Line: Lunati Bracket Master II Cam and Lifter Kits
Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 1,500-5,000
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 218
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 218
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 218 int./218 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 284
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 284
Advertised Duration: 284 int./284 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.458 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.458 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.458 int./0.458 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees): 110
Intake Valve Lash: 0.000 in.
Exhaust Valve Lash: 0.000 in.
Lifter Style: Hydraulic flat tappet

[Sir english firebird]

This may seem like a really daft question but do you want to stick with the original block ( ie for no's matching ) ?
I paid a really good price for my engine, the poor previous owner had spent more than double what i paid for the engine on just machining and parts.
He didnt get round to building the engine and sold it to me as a load of boxes, i then built the engine and added a few bits of my own, but then i wasnt starting with an original car.
Just a thought.......

[turbota400]

I had the same situation as Sir english.  I traded an intake to a friend in college for a block and a bunch of boxes and added my own touch to build my 400.  Talk about a learning experience!  And... I spent less than $1,800 for a motor that has close to $3,500 invested.

[Joker (§ir£Ğragon)]

This may seem like a really daft question but do you want to stick with the original block ( ie for no's matching ) ?
I paid a really good price for my engine, the poor previous owner had spent more than double what i paid for the engine on just machining and parts.
He didnt get round to building the engine and sold it to me as a load of boxes, i then built the engine and added a few bits of my own, but then i wasnt starting with an original car.
Just a thought.......

That's not an issue since Rich doesn't have the original engine.

[Sir english firebird]

Then this is the way to go foward, let someone else take the HIT!

Ebay my friend and patience!

[TransAmGuy]

Rich,

   I've got about $1500 of machine shop costs in my engine and that's with me doing all the tear down and re-assembly.  It basically broke down like this:

Heads: $450
Block:  $600
Master Rebuild kit w/o cam: $450

I bought a Summit 2801 for the time being, but I am going to have Nunzi's Automotive custom grind a cam for me that will reflect the original specs of the W72 cam for a '78.

Don't know if that was any help, but I would think you can put together a decent engine for $2,000.  If not, my $500 offer still stands.   

[rkellerjr]

Is that $500 offer in another thread?  I'm not remembering what that was.

[RENOVATIONS]

I'm destined never to be happy with this car. 

I agree.  That car is junk.  I hate to see a fella suffer though, so I probably could scrape together....say $500....to take it off your hands.............

[TransAmGuy]

I'm destined never to be happy with this car. 

I agree.  That car is junk.  I hate to see a fella suffer though, so I probably could scrape together....say $500....to take it off your hands.............

Which Rich then followed with, "I may just sell it to you......."