Topic: Engine Rebuild questions

[SoonerTA]

gonnatell...I just sent Extreme Machines and email asking about some pricing and general questions.  I will post what they said when they respond. 

[gonnatell]

Looks like i'll go with those rods too. I have a lot of pics of my car on my computer but I havent posted any on the site. Theres actually a couple of them in the gallery on this site. I havent had a lot of time nor money to start getting into my project so I've just been making a list of parts that i plan to use so my car looks pretty rough as it sits now. I plan on assembling my motor myself also, I'm trying to save all the money I can. I live Central Austin about 2miles from downtown. You?

gonnatell...I just sent Extreme Machines and email asking about some pricing and general questions.  I will post what they said when they respond. 

I cant wait to hear what they said. The biggest thing on my mind right now is getting my Trans Am going.

[SoonerTA]

Looks like i'll go with those rods too. I have a lot of pics of my car on my computer but I havent posted any on the site. Theres actually a couple of them in the gallery on this site. I havent had a lot of time nor money to start getting into my project so I've just been making a list of parts that i plan to use so my car looks pretty rough as it sits now. I plan on assembling my motor myself also, I'm trying to save all the money I can. I live Central Austin about 2miles from downtown. You?

gonnatell...I just sent Extreme Machines and email asking about some pricing and general questions.  I will post what they said when they respond. 

I cant wait to hear what they said. The biggest thing on my mind right now is getting my Trans Am going.

I just got an email back from them saying to give them a call and they will talk out the details.  Nice...I am going to call them on Monday. 

I actually live in Cedar Park.  There are a couple 2nd Gen TA's running around here.  A couple of them should be at the Rudy's car show on October 31st.  183 and Duval on the west side of the road. 

[72blackbird]

Guys,
The 5140 I-beams are good for 500 hp, plenty strong for a 350-375 hp build. Get those rods plus the 1- piece forged stainless valves in your motor and you can buzz your motor hard with no worries.

I'd say a good quality 400 or 455 will cost about $3500 if you handle the final assembly, or $4500-5000 if you have a shop build it. Figure around $2400 for quality parts (KB forged pistons, 4340 I-beams, Mahle Plasma moly rings, Crower cam w/ new valve springs, PRW aluminum water pump, stainless valves, stainless roller rockers, new Powerforce balancer, etc.), and around $800-1000 for machine work. You could knock $200 off of those prices if you ran the Sealed Power/ TRW-stlye pistons and the 5140's, but considering how much time, money, and effort it takes to build a motor I'm going with the slightly higher priced rods and pistons for my 455 build.

I have a set of 6x-4's and 6x-8's, but most likely I'm running the -8's to keep the compression friendly at 9.2-9.3:1 with 91 octane here in CA. I'm going to port my heads too, but for those new to building pontiacs it's better to have a good shop w/ Pontiac experience do it, or have a Pontiac guy help you do it.

Geno

[SoonerTA]

Thanks Geno for your help.  I would love to drop in a 455 and though about it but I am going to keep my car number matching for the time being.  If I can get around 350+/- HP at the flywheel I would be happy. 

[72blackbird]

The 500557 400 block that came with your car is fine for a 350-375 hp build, just don't try to stroke it. You could also cut down the price to a little over $3k without the 'nice stuff' (aluminum water pump, s/s roller rockers, high-dollar moly rings, etc.) but I've found these parts upgrade a decent build into a premium, high quality one.

A 455 build will cost you what you would spend rebuilding your 400, plus the price of the shortblock and what you'd spend at the machine shop to check and clean it- around $500-650. I like 400's too (in my 'Bird for the last 10 years), but once you feel the power of a 455 in your car you'll end up with another one under your hood.

BTW, I have some nice 'recipes' on Excel spreadsheets for most Pontiac engines if you need them.

Geno

[SoonerTA]

The 500557 400 block that came with your car is fine for a 350-375 hp build, just don't try to stroke it. You could also cut down the price to a little over $3k without the 'nice stuff' (aluminum water pump, s/s roller rockers, high-dollar moly rings, etc.) but I've found these parts upgrade a decent build into a premium, high quality one.

A 455 build will cost you what you would spend rebuilding your 400, plus the price of the shortblock and what you'd spend at the machine shop to check and clean it- around $500-650. I like 400's too (in my 'Bird for the last 10 years), but once you feel the power of a 455 in your car you'll end up with another one under your hood.

BTW, I have some nice 'recipes' on Excel spreadsheets for most Pontiac engines if you need them.

Geno

Thanks for your help.  I would really appreciate your "recipes" if you don't mind sharing them for the 400.  You could PM or email.  Do you think with the items I have listed I will be at the HP numbers I want?  Thanks again.  

[72blackbird]

Sooner,
What cam are you going to run- the Comp cams XE 262? I'll see what parts I'd run with that cam and I'll pm you- let me know if you think you're going with another brand.

Geno

[SoonerTA]

Sooner,
What cam are you going to run- the Comp cams XE 262? I'll see what parts I'd run with that cam and I'll pm you- let me know if you think you're going with another brand.

Geno

Geno

That is the cam I am going to go with.  The XE262H

[thepreacher]

Sooner, Blackbird, et al.,

This has been a VERY helpful and informative thread! I live near Waco and am doing just about the same as you are. I have a 78 with a non-matching 400 :-( but a very helpful friend who has forgotten more about Pontiac performance than I will ever know. He races mid 60s GTOs and he is going to build my engine for me. The machine shop he uses is between here and Waco in a little town called Axtel. He uses them regularly for his race engines, so I have no doubt that they will be fine for my street engine. He had a similar recommendation for a cam - he thought the 268 would be good, the one Mr. P-body called the "red headed step-child" :-) But looking this over, I think that cam might be a little big for me. I really don't want to have to do transmission changes as well.

I have also spoken with David at Texas Trans Ams up by Ft Worth. He is VERY knowledgeable and runs a great shop.

Blackbird, I, too, would be interested in your engine combinations. I have been pricing parts, and something like you mentioned would be very helpful. You all are great!

[72blackbird]

I'm more than happy to share my parts lists with anyone- just tell me what size engine you're going to build and pm me with your e-mail address. My parts lists all source either Jeg's or Summit Racing for some parts, Pacific Performance racing for the Pontiac parts (that doesn't mean that Ken Keefer or Jim Lehart couldn't set you up as well- Ace Brewer is just local to me)- order your Poncho parts wherever you can get the best deals.

I learned to build Pontiac motors at a local JC in auto shop almost 20 years ago, but I still had to figure out alot of it on my own (needless to say I made a few mistakes along the way). I'm more than happy to share what I know, since some of the experts here have shown me a few new Pontiac tech tips as well.

Geno

[SoonerTA]

With the XE262H cam do you need new valve springs or would the stock ones work?

[72blackbird]

I've heard stock springs can be used but Comp cams says no- I'll go with the cam manufacturer and follow their specs.

I don't like using the stock springs since they're not fresh and won't let the cam rev to it's intended power range before the valves start floating. I've heard of some guys even using the stock rocker rockers and nuts but w/ lift at .460/.470 You really should adjust the valve lash and use polylocks. I would also get rid of the 3/8" bottleneck studs and run the 7/16" BBC ARP studs.

Don't you like my recipe? The only new ingredients on there are the 5140 forged replacement rods and the PRW parts- otherwise it's one that makes for a nice running 400.

Geno

[SoonerTA]

Don't you like my recipe? The only new ingredients on there are the 5140 forged replacement rods and the PRW parts- otherwise it's one that makes for a nice running 400.

Geno

haha...I do like your recipe.  A lot of those parts I had on my list. 

I was just asking questions.  I have heard a lot of things and just trying to figure them out.  I intend to get new valve springs and already have the polylocks and ARP studs.  Again, thanks for your help.  Your list really helped out and had things I forgot about. 

[72blackbird]

Sooner,
I just looked over it- don't forget to get some good valve keepers. I like the spreadsheets because it really helps you keep track of  parts, especially if you're doing more than one build at the same time.

When are you planning to start you build (if you're not on it already)?

Geno