Topic: Your just not going to believe this! tic, tic, tic,

[fb_rider]

Well, another thought struck me and that is using the dish washers from the old set up.  I did not put them back on when I installed the KN's but maybe I should have.  That would lift the KN about a 1/4 inch and give plenty of bite with the allen screw and plenty of room for the KN to torque down for lashing.  I believe I will try this latter idea before I do anything else.  thougths?
And by the way, the KB's look very similar to your pic above.

Dish washers??

 I hope you aren't referring to the rocker ball?

I'll probably get flak for this, but I've never seen washers on top of the rocker balls.

Maybe you need to post some pictures, because I'd like to see these washers.

The rocker balls are what I'm talking about - and I'm pretty sure Rich is too.

[thumper78]

Rich

If you left the part in the center out, well, now you've got some big problems.



Your lash won't stay set because your wearing the Kool Nuts into the wall of the rocker itself.

You can kiss those rockers and the Kool Nuts goodby.

When you tear down for inspection of the parts, I sure you'll find them pretty scarred up.

Might as well decide what you want to use for new rockers and nuts now.

Also consider upgrading to straight studs.

[Eagle 1]

Rich, this is pretty much what I asked you about when you first starting having problems.
The center piece is called a rocker arm ball.  These become worn over the years and may need to be replaced as well as the rocker itself, since the new cam and lifters will change the "height" that the rocker arm will travel.




First of all, we need to establish if you have screw in studs or pressed in studs on your head.  The picture that thumper posted is the screw in studs, the pressed in studs wont have a "nut" to screw them into the heads.
Both of these in this picture are screw in studs.



Thanks for the pictures thumper, this helps.
Rich, when you can, post us a picture of yours.

[thumper78]

Rich has 6x heads, screw in studs.

Pictures were over on TAC site and the corresponding thread in the 78 ta section - Restorations - Partial engine rebuild, I will need help

Picture of studs is at this post by Rich

Re: Partial engine rebuild - I WILL need help
« Reply #56 on: April 05, 2007, 04:11:47 PM »

[Eagle 1]

Ok, thanks I see it now, I havent been keeping up with it over on tac.  Definately screw in studs.

Get this guys.  I pulled the cover off at work and sure enough, three of the rockers were loose.  I mean, you can wiggle the rocker and it shakes type of loose.  So, I lash them down, again, start the car and she still ticks.  So, I figure I missed one and said screw it, I'll drive it home the way it is.  So, I get out of work, start her up and ..... NO FREAKIN TAPPIN!

When you say "lash them down again", are you torquing them to 20 foot pounds?
I believe the problem is that he has worn arms, and worn rocker arm balls.

[rkellerjr]

Well, well, well.  Looks like we found the problem.  I did NOT install the rocker ball.  I will do so tonight and relash everything.  Nope, I'm not buying new parts at this point, I'll see if everything will come together without them.  If I need to... well... I don't know, I really can't afford it.  I will, of course, keep you informed.  I'm glad I took them out of the trash which is going to the dump today.

[Clint s]

Looks like you found out the lash thing. I hope it did not ruin anything.  If it did the stock rockers are probally prettyy cheap used I'm sure someone around here could help you out.  You said your timing was 34 at idle.  Is that with your advance plugged in.  I sure hope so.  You need to check your timing with the line off the canister and the line plugged and see what your base is.  If it increases when you plug it back in you could be running manifold vacume and that could lead to your stumbling problem.

[Eagle 1]

Well I guess that explains it.  Its not worn, its MIA.
I would just go back with the original rocker balls and nuts and see what happens.  I honestly dont think you need the KN's unless you are planning on running down the track every week and turning some serious rpm's.

[ta78w72]

Geez, you guys did a great job figuring this one out.  Something like this could take someone a lifetime to figure out.  The value of this forum is priceless!!!

[fb_rider]

I will say that when we were first breaking in my new cam (Summit K2801 first installed with original rocker nuts), the valve train was noisy (partially related to another issue), and the engine kept "popping" at 2500 rpm or so.  Once I installed the Kool Nuts, it quieted down and the "popping" went away.  I later read that one symptom of incorrectly adjusted valve train is the engine "popping", so I really think the Kool Nuts were necessary.

[rkellerjr]

I'm going to keep the KN's on, just add the Rocker Balls underneath them.  I believe that is my solution so ya Mike, I'm going to keep them.

Geez, you guys did a great job figuring this one out.  Something like this could take someone a lifetime to figure out.  The value of this forum is priceless!!!

Couldn't agree more and you get the added benefit of making friends along the way.

[thumper78]

Not to be the voice of doom here

But you better check the insides of those rockers where the ball seats.

You've been running the Koolnuts jammed down into the face of the rockers for how many miles and how many high speed runs did you mention in the last week or so?

I'm willing to bet that you left grooves in the rocker seats and that you also wore off the edges of the KoolNuts. Trying to run them now if damaged with the rocker balls installed can only result in disaster.

And hopefully you numbered those balls before you threw them in the trash. They are worn in with a specific rocker, kind of like a lifter to a cam lobe deal. Remember my pictures over at TAC about mismatched lifters and cam lobes? Well, you can get the same results with rockers. When the rockers start to overheat, then gall, then seize because they were mismatched, then you'll know what fun is.

Of course, all this is my opinion, but I wouldn't run them after what you did.

You may have no choice but to replace.

And if you have definate signs of wear, then you should plan on another oil & filter change too.

But hey, you know what?

It's your motor. Do what you think is right

[wheels78ta]

Hey, Rich.....I agree with thumper78....it would probably be best in the long run if you could replace the rockers and nuts, plus the oil and filter change.  If there is any wear on them from running them without the washer balls,  there is a good chance small metal shavings or bits could be in the oil....check the parts very closely.  Just my 2 cents.   

[rkellerjr]

Thanks Steve, you know I appreciate your advice and have adhered to it 100%!  And your right again, some of the Koolnuts were worn on the edges but the rockers looked OK.  I did not number the Rocker Balls .  Having said all that I put them in anyway  and put the Koolnuts back on.  I retarded the timing down to about 15/17 (I still had my mark from breakin the cam in) and took her for a drive and she ran like crap.    Hesitating and even backfired once.  So, I get home, advance the distributor (with hose plugged) back up to where I had it and took another drive.  It drives great and you can feel the power now.    I do think I need to adjust it just a little more.

I also discovered that my water gauge is going dead and it's effecting my oil gauge or something like that.   The water gauge indicated a temp of 245 but the engine was NOT that hot.  I had troubles with it last year not reading right so as I'm driving, on my way home, the needle jumps from 245 to 225 then two seconds later jumps to 240.  I pull into the driveway and it jumps to 120.  So, I'm right about the gauge.  I tapped the glass on the guage and the needle drops past 0 and then my oil guage drops past 0!!!!  Crapola!!  I then turn off my lights and the oil guage jumps back up and starts working again.  You got to love these old cars.  Looks like I might have a lose wire or something back there.

So, in conclusion, she running, no ticking, good power and not overheating, I'm going to bed! 

[wheels78ta]

Glad to hear it's running better...Now....Come down here and pick me up...I called Shotgun!!!!