Hitman's Pontiac Trans Am Forum
Trans Am Information => Trans Am Tech => DriveTrain => Topic started by: TeamPontiac88 on May 29, 2011, 10:23:37 AM
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Hi, I was changing the oil on my 80 ta with 301 non turbo, and i noticed the balaner appears to be wobbling! The pulleys are fine but the balancer on the crank appears to wobble. it feels tight. Im new to the 301 and have not worked on these cars in many years... what should i be looking for? Thanks!
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Replace the balancer. A bad one can do unspeakable damage to a motor in an instant.
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Hmm is it a horror story to replace? The last time i removed one was back in 1984 when i was fixing my 71 firebird with a 400....Thanks for the response by the way!
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It isn't too bad. You have to remove the belts, fan, fan shroud, and pullies. After you unbolt the balancer, put a balancer puller on it to get it off. Sometimes it is easier to remove the radiator if you need the extra room to work in. When you put the new one on, DO NOT use a hammer to "tap" it on. This will play hell on your thrust bearing. Use a proper balancer installer tool. If you don't have the tools, most parts stores will rent them out for minimal cost. This in a nutshell.
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Thanks, Not the fun of trying to find one! Gmdirect shows no listing and either does autozone or advance.. Thanks for the help!
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Try Butler Performance. They specialize in Pontiacs. Some of the restoration companies may also have them. Classic Industries, Ames Performance, Performance Years, are a few of them.
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Ahh I forgot about them.. thanks!
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No problem. Good luck with the repair. If you have any questions, don't be afraid to ask.
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Great so far classic and ames dont list it!
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all i am seeing is a repair sleeve.. whats that all about? oh I can see this will be fun! Maybe this is the excuse i needed to find a pontiac 400! LOL
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How many do you want???
I found about 10 listed in0.23 seconds. Heres one.
http://store02.prostores.com/servlet/pontiacdude/the-1455/Pioneer-Race-Balancers/Detail
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260764553718
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You are non turbo so I think I recall your engine being internally balanced like the others earlier engines. 301-455 is supposed to be the same if memory serves me correctly in relation to balancers. Although not 301 turbo.
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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ATI-917160/?rtype=10
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http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/category.asp?CtgID=15041
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http://www.tinindianperformance.com/pontiac%20engine%20balancers%20%20damper.htm
If you can't find one there let us know and we'll keep hunting. Good luck.
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all i am seeing is a repair sleeve.. whats that all about? oh I can see this will be fun! Maybe this is the excuse i needed to find a pontiac 400! LOL
The repair sleeves are used to stop oil seeping out. The balancer wears and the sleeve compensates. I'd replace the balancer rather than use a sleeve. But in your case, you must replace the balancer. I wouldn't drive the car as it is now.
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Thanks guys! I have not had one of these cars in many many years so I didnt know where to look! I appreciate all the help!
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This is what will happen when a balancer goes, my buddy was driving down the highway when it went, not pretty! broke the crank and snapped the cam.
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c13/ih8z28s/P1011484.jpg)
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Dude, U gotta post warnings before something this graphic. OUCH! Its like watching another guy get kicked test tickles!
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There is another member on here that posted some pretty graphic pics of a catastrophic failure in his '75 TA when the hub of his balancer fell apart and wiped out everything.
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gm part# 88960256 is what you need. gm parts direct has one for $32!
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/
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I may have that one on the shelf. If it's the same as the 400 balancer, that particular one is made in India but it does appear better made than the original. But, my original has been on the car since it left the factory and the one on the shelf has never been installed.
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Look at the keyway on the balancer. Mine had a hairline crack in it, glad I caught it!
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There is another member on here that posted some pretty graphic pics of a catastrophic failure in his '75 TA when the hub of his balancer fell apart and wiped out everything.
That was Rick. But I always wondered how he knew the balancer was the real culprit. That engine virtually exploded.
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Before you get a balancer puller check to see if you can pull it off by hand.A lot of them will just slide off once the bolts out.
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thanks guys! Im just a little confused as to whats the correct balancer. I read different things about the 301. some sites say its 301 specific, some say no. arghhhhhhh
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What I've found and remember is that 301 Turbo is the oddball. But of course you can check it out for yourself.
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thanks guys! Im just a little confused as to whats the correct balancer. I read different things about the 301. some sites say its 301 specific, some say no. arghhhhhhh
good thing i caught this, i didnt read your first post close enough. the balancer i put the link to is NOT for your 301. those are not available new or repro as far as i know. the 301 is externally balanced & has a specific balanced damper & flywheel. all other pontiacs are internal balance & use the same basic balancer for most years.
sorry for not catching you had a 301. dont ask how i found out they are different! ;)
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78w72, what source did you use for that info. Specifically the part that the 301 is externally balanced? Did the source specifically say NON TURBO 301 is externally balanced? Thanks I need to verify my research and sounds you you have a good lead on it so I'll just quote your source!
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I found an article (if you wanna call it that) on Wikipedia that does list the 301 as externally balanced so now I'm going nuts to validate. Anyone else have a good source to confirm this?
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Hey--- If you do find out that a standard balancer from a 400 will work for TeamPontiac88, PM me and I'll send one your way.
Bob (Reaper) has a 301 non turbo parts car. You could contact him, too.
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Through some reading on 301 garage, I found verification that the 301 is externally balanced...as well as the balancer is specific to the engine (source is JJR, all the proof I need).
Also found a link to this company...which has one for sale.
http://www.damperdudes.net//index.php?cPath=38&osCsid=0fb3ea7de2ca8ee1cf63d7ce8e2a37f1
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Well thank you so much. I was misinformed being told only Turbo were externally balanced. Thanks.
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I cant thank you guys enough for all the valuable info i have learned on here!
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yes all 301's are external balance. the cranks only have 2 counter weights, the rest of the weight is at the balancer & flywheel. i know this because i have rebuilt my 301 turbo & had many non turbo 301 parts cars... plus im a member at 301 garage & they do noting but 301's over there. turbo & non turbo.
if you have any other 301 related questions, check out 301garage.com great site with everything you want to know about 301's
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Hey, Thanks for clearing that up for me. I recall a specific statement from a guy years ago and he said NON Turbo's were internally! But your version certainly makes more sense especially since they both got the same two counterweight cranks! Thanks for setting me straight! I hate repeating bad info!
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Ah... Guys...
ALL 301's are externally balanced and can NOT use Pontiac 350, 400 or 455
balancers.
Shawn G at the 301 Store most likely has one.
Joe
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Thanks to everyone who chimed in on the subject! I was getting confusing info and you guys set it straight! Im hoping to get this engine done so i can drive it until I can find a 350 or better to replace it with. I hate the idea of pulling a perfectly good engine but im amazed at how slow this thing is. I had an 81 firebird back in 1989 and that had the 265.. Ouch that was painful!
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Usually the 301's are in such poor shape that folks often come to your
conclusion. The 301 has a number of very positive attributes though.
It's lessor weight makes for an outstanding autocross racer as it's balance
is nearly 50/50. No 400 powered Fbody has that, they are very nose heavy
and can't handle as well.
All GM engines of the era are overcome by emmisions regs and configs
and as such all are in about the same state of detune.
So, if you really need massive HP, none of the period's engines will offer
that much. The 455 was mighty for it's day, but the cost of making that
happen usually exceeds most budgets. The LS1 and LT1 engine families
are quite impressive as they have all of the big three... gas mileage, HP and
torque, but then again it's a chevy engine and you have just another
hacked up classic that few will want after you.
Most used car venues feature many listings of cheap, hacked up Fbodies,
that might even save you some money as they come pre-hacked with
just about any engine you can imagine.
Joe
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Thanks for the input. This 301 was definitly not abused, I just bought if from the original owner a few months ago. Its all original down to the 8 track player and factory speakers! My co workers wife bought it new in 1980 when she was 30 and is now 61, hence the reason she sold it! Other then some rot in the 1/4s its in awesome shape. I just did a complete tune up when i noticed the balancer was bad. Never got to drive it out on the street.