Topic: 1980 trans am restoration

[caseyjoe5]

I recently started to restore a 1980 trans am.  It was originally an indy pace car.  Not much remains of the pace car items.  It came to me with a 1972 350 four barrel, turbo 350 tranny, not sure about the rear end yet but it has gm33 stamped on it.  Whats everyone think about putting a 350 in a trans am?  Can some better performance be built in at a reasonable cost.  I usually think of 400 or 455 when I hear trans am.  I'm doing a frame off restore, so I have some time to weigh options.

[Rick]

Welcome to 78TA.com!  Before we start, lemme tell you we love pictures so post some up of your ride!  We've all got projects so we like to watch them as they come along -- don't wait until it's done!

The general consensus with this group will be to go with a Pontiac engine over a SBC.  The whole world has done SBCs to death.  But your car didn't come with a Pointiac engine in the first place -- it was likely an Olds 403 (if it wasn't a Chevy from the factory -- things got a little whacky those last couple of years in the TA).  A big part of what you drop in depends on where you live and if emissions controls are required.  If they're not, then I'd vote for either the original engine or a Pontiac V8.  If they are, your options are greatly limited.

[1981turbotransam]

not if it was a TRUE indy pace car it had a 301 TURBO 4 bbl

[RENOVATIONS]

not if it was a TRUE indy pace car it had a 301 TURBO 4 bbl

You gotta' watch it, Rick...he got ya there

Welcome to 78TA! I agree with what Rick is saying though...spare your bird the shame of a SBC ....if the pace car attributes are too far gone to put it back stock, at least drop in a 400 or 455 PONTIAC.
Good luck with your resto and take your time...if you're doing a frame off, you have plenty of time to weigh out your options on the engine...and everything else 

Post up some pix of it's current state when you have a chance. 

[1981turbotransam]

imo if you have a pace car and your going to do a frame off put it back to a pace car because they only made 5700 of those cars and if you take the number of ones that has been crashed or crushed or burnt up or put up in a barn 5700 dwendles alot i have a 1980 indy pace car and it is very rough it would make a good street rob but it is going back stock it will cost me a lil more but i will have something unique and something that nobody around my area has thats what i am going to do but its your car build your car the way you want build it to soot yourself if you want a 350 chevy motor in it paint it blue and pretend that it is a pontiac it is your ride make it all yours

[RENOVATIONS]

IMO If you have a pace car and your going to do a frame off, put it back to a pace car. Since they only made 5,700 of those cars, if you take the number of ones that has been crashed, crushed, burnt, or put up in a barn... 5,700 dwindles alot. I have a 1980 Indy pace car ... it is very rough and would make a good street rod but it is going back stock. It will cost me a lil more but i will have something unique and something that nobody around my area has. Thats what i am going to do; but its your car... build your car the way you want... build it to suit yourself. If you want a 350 chevy motor in it, paint it blue and pretend that it is a pontiac. It is your ride, make it all yours.

Didn't  I just give you a box of punctuation marks for Christmas? 
You do make a good point... but I believe he is saying the pace car parts are long gone from his car

[Sir english firebird]

"if you want a 350 chevy motor in it paint it blue and pretend that it is a pontiac it is your ride make it all yours" quote from 1981turbotransam .
What exactly are you getting at?

350 SBC !

And then i painted it BLUE...........

BUT ive never claimed it to be anything other than a base model FIREBIRD, oh it was made by PONTIAC !

Like daggers in the heart.  I respect peoples right to a choice and some will like others more, but i'd be carefull how you phrase it!

I used to be a concourse judge for a certain British Ford club, but was asked to leave as i kept upsetting the owners, tact wasnt a strong point and some people didnt appreciate the flaws that i pointed out!

MY PERSONAL VIEW IS THIS, some cars are beyond being put back to original, either the owner cannot afford too, the car is beyond saving or does not wish too. At the end of the day a car on the road is ANOTHER ONE SAVED, if your fortunate enough to have a rare one in mint condition, thats great but i despise the snobbery that sometimes goes with this.
A friend had a Trans am, ( genuine car, unmodified, he was restoring ) it was in Primer ready to be sprayed, he took it to a show ( UK ) and wanted to park on the P#####C OWNERS C### UK STAND ( he was a fully paid up member ) but was refused a spot as his car was " too rough for the stand " did it really need to be a Show stopper? Surely its another example of a great car?

[bobspacin80ta]

The car will be what you want it to be.Either way there are a good group of guys here to guide you along the way.

[Rick]

MY PERSONAL VIEW IS THIS, some cars are beyond being put back to original, either the owner cannot afford too, the car is beyond saving or does not wish too. At the end of the day a car on the road is ANOTHER ONE SAVED, if your fortunate enough to have a rare one in mint condition, thats great but i despise the snobbery that sometimes goes with this.

In the end, Steve is right -- it all boils down to what he's said here.  I've seen this discussion tons of times, and that's ALWAYS the bottom line for me.  I think that it is for most guys too -- at least true Firebird people.  I think any hostility detected is probably an overreaction to the prevailing attitude of "Buick/Olds/Pontiac engines won't run anyway -- just yank it already and put in a small bock Chevy because that's the greatest engine ever made" that is so common in the car hobby.  Pontiac guys are so SICK of hearing that  -- I fear that an attitude of latent hostility builds up and so when this question comes up they are too quick to show it.  I think we owe it to ourselves to see that this doesn't come across as snobbery, which isn't good either for our image as Firebird lovers or the hobby in general.  We don't want to be the "SBC-only" crowd in reverse.

As for my part -- OOPS!  I was thinking Pontiac 400, which ceased in 1979, and forgot about the 301.  There's nothing wrong with a 301 either, for that matter -- and Pontiac DID put them in the Firebird so they too are an original engine.  I can only say that perhaps I was too full of Christmas cheer (and those wondrous chocoloate/peanut cluster thingys) last night which is what caused me to miss that.  After 12 hours of digestion, I feel much better this morning!

[caseyjoe5]

I will send some pictures as soon as I figure out how to do it.  I'm not an expert on cars, and even less on computers.  The cars was an original indy pace car with a 301 turbo in it.  There is basically nothing left of the pace car parts.  No engine, tranny, or wheels.  I don't think the rear end is original because it has drum brakes, I believe the pace cars had four wheel disks.  There is very little interior with the car.  As always, you have to weigh the cost of restoring this car to original, to the cost of having a nice driver.  This is my first full resto-job, and with my limited experience will be very challenging. 

[RENOVATIONS]

I will send some pictures as soon as I figure out how to do it.

Posting pix is easy...just set up an account at a photo hosting site, like www.photobucket.com , and load your pix there. You can then post the IMG code of the pic into your post here...any questions, just ask.



I agree with what you are saying Steve and please take no offense at my, or anyone else's, comments. 
A bird saved is a bird saved. I would prefer to see them returned to stock form myself but that isn't always possible as you pointed out and I have no problem with what route they take to remain intact and on the road as they are intended.
I've said it before and will say it again...you have a very nice bird!!! 

[1981turbotransam]

realy if you have the silver mirroed t-tops that is one of the most expensive things on a pace car. you and i are in the same shape on the pace car like i said build it your own way dont build it to soot noone but yourself.

[ta78w72]

Put whatever engine you want in the car.  Pontiac certainly didn't care what engines went into them.  The chevy 350 is, in my opinion, the best engine ever made.  1980 wasn't the best year for engines anyway, so if the car is missing the original engine it's a good excuse to upgrade.  The Olds 403 wasn't available in 1980. 

In 1978, when I ordered my Formula, I specifically ordered a chevy 350 in it.  Never regretted it either.  Pontiac was happy to build it for me that way too.

[WarbirdTA]

You have the right interior, right?
The oyster door panels (with the embroyted birds one per panel) and seats (again, the rears with the embroyted bird) are pretty expensive to replace.
Wheels and engine are easy to find.

George 

[caseyjoe5]

The car came with two sets of t-tops.  The guy I bought it from said that one set was the original, but he also said many things.  You guys know what I'm talking about.  LOL  As for the interior, I have the door panels, but they are probably not reusable.  The rear seat is not the original.