Hitman's Pontiac Trans Am Forum
Trans Am Information => Trans Am Tech => Electrical => Topic started by: medicman on September 30, 2008, 11:30:01 AM
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I have been reviewing my cd that shows me the wiring for my car but I have a few extra wires that if I get rid of I have no power to my dash, but if I leave them there, I have constant power. I have taken some pics so if you can help in sorting it out, it would be great. I you need certain pics to help me out, let me know, I getting good with the camera.
Medicman
(http://www.78ta.com/gallery2/main.php/d/8853-1/2008-09_sept_-30+003.jpg)
(http://www.78ta.com/gallery2/main.php/d/8857-1/2008-09_sept_-30+004.jpg)
(http://www.78ta.com/gallery2/main.php/d/8860-1/2008-09_sept_-30+007.jpg)
(http://www.78ta.com/gallery2/main.php/d/8863-1/2008-09_sept_-30+009.jpg)
(http://www.78ta.com/gallery2/main.php/d/8866-1/2008-09_sept_-30+005.jpg)
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here I am saying that I am getting good with the camera and I cant even load a pic on here :-\
Here is my next attempt with only two pics, I hope this works.
The pics for some reason are HUGE!!!, The first one is the one going to the firewall, I am trying to figure out if there are any extra wires going in here. The second one is coming from the battery and then spliting off going to the alternator and the firewall.
If you have pics of how it is suppose to look, I would appriecate it.
Thanks, Medicman
(http://www.78ta.com/gallery2/main.php/d/8874-1/2008-09_sept_-30+003.jpg)
(http://www.78ta.com/gallery2/main.php/d/8884-1/2008-09_sept_-30+004.jpg)
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Ok the pics suck!! they dont show what I am trying to show if that makes any sense?? I give up, if anyone wants I can just email the pics to you so you can post them for me or look at them and let me know what looks right or wrong.
Thanks Medicman
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Medicman,
Are you saying someone "added" aftermarket wiring to your car?
Or that you've decided to re-engineer the factory harness?
Also, I'm not clear on the "power to your dash" aspect.
Could you elaborate on this for us?
Joe
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He emailed pictures to me. That harness looks a mess to me. There's no line going to the high blower relay. The positive battery cable is hacked up....probably because the wrong cable was installed and it was missing one of the wires. That's probably why all the splicing to the red wires. I advised him to replace the entire harness. Brett may have one. That would be a lot easier than trying to redo it.
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When you say replace the harness, and please exuse my stupidy of this question, "what does the whole harness consist of?" is it the block on the firewall, engine compartment and under the dash? Thanks for taking the time to look at my problem.
Medicman
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No such thing as a stupid question...
The wiring on these cars is actually like 4-5 groups
(harnesses) that plug into each other.
Instead of repairing a badly hacked one, you can
unplug it, replace it.
Sounds like ta78w72 is already on the case. He'll
find or help you find the right one and replace the
hacked one.
ta78w72, which harness? engine?
Joe
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Thanks for that.
ta78w72 mentioned that there's no line going to the high blower relay. Where is the blower relay and what picture did you notice this in. ???
If you need anymore specific pics to help see what I am dealing with or what I need to do this right just ask and I will take them. :)
thanks for all the help, It stops me from wanting to pull my hair out. ;D
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He wants the engine harness. The high blower relay is located on the A/C box just to the left of the hood hinge in the engine compartment. Does your car have A/C?
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no it does not have A/C
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Later edit...
wrong illustration, deleted.
Joe
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Non A/C is different....I'm not sure where the high blower relay and the resistor mount but I thought it was under the dash.
I assume when you put the selector on vent, you can't toggle the blower to high.
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That's right... it would have to be somewhere else, no evaporator
box to attach them to... Dah...
Joe
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Ok, C41 is the no A/C RPO code.
This illustration shows the resistor assembly down
on the temperature mixing box that surrounds the
heater core. (number 7)
(http://www.301garage.com/78ta/C41.jpg)
I haven't found the relay location (yet).
Joe
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You know Joe, you're a good guy! You're always positive and helpful.
That relay is problem sitting somewhere under the dash. We need someone with a non A/C car to step in and tell us exactly where it's located.
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Well I have ordered a new engine wiring harness from classic industries. They cost $130 that is taxes and delivery included.
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I have power at the fuse box for the heater fan. The 3 prong resistor looks good on top of heater core under the dash. From the fuse box, where does the power go first, does it go to the resistor first and then to the fan switch or vise versa.
Thanks, Medicman.
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In researching this, there's not much on the no A/C configuration.
Some areas seem to lend the thought that the relay is for the A/C
configuration only, but it's certainly not clear.
What model year is this car? I missed that somewhere, not that it
will make much difference in how it's wired, but in finding the info
maybe.
Joe
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The car is a 1979. it has a 455 with 400 6x heads from a ram air III. It has a holley dominator street intake and a holley 780 double pump carb. The rear diff is a 10 bolt 3.73 posi from a 1970 ram air III.
Did I mention I bought a whole new wiring harness from classic industries, I hope will be here in roughly 7-10 days. The fella told me it was easy to install due to everything being labeled.
Thanks, Elliott
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Well, it's possible that non A/C cars don't have a hi setting for the blower motor. I'm just not sure but it wouldn't make sense not to have a high setting. The way to tell is to make sure the motor runs on the lowest setting (always on), then move the lever up and each time listen for the blower motor to blow more air. I imagine it does have a hi setting though. You would want that for heat and defrost. The hi setting bypasses the resistor (through the high blower relay) and directs current from the alternator to the blower motor.
But the line from the alternator may be different for non A/C cars. It might get direct power from the input to the fuse box. So a special wire wouldn't be needed from the alternator.
But, if that harness from classic works out, it will be money well spent. I don't like dealing with splices. You're better off with a new harness.
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I have power at the fuse box for the heater fan. The 3 prong resistor looks good on top of heater core under the dash. From the fuse box, where does the power go first, does it go to the resistor first and then to the fan switch or vise versa.
Thanks, Medicman.
It goes to the switch. Then, the relay shuttles the current through the resistor. The more resistance, the slower the motor....until the high setting which bypasses the resistor altogether.
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I will look at that tomorrow, I have spent enough time in the shop today. (wife is going to shot me soon!!!)
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Well, the base wiring diagram does not show the relay, only the A/C section shows
the addition.
Additionally, I think the non A/C control head has only 3 fan positions, whereas the A/C
version 4.
No where that I can find does it directly address the issue.
In my opinion, there's no relay in the non A/C setup, all the juice comes from the fusebox.
Joe
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I have been looking at my cd that I bought from the hitman, and it does not show very good wiring diagrams, It is a good cd but not great for wiring. Do you have any good easy to follow diagrams for under the dash. I just want to check every connection and the colour of the wire.
I have purchased a hard copy service manual from ebay but it going to take 14-29 days to get here.
Elliott
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While there is no substitute for the Pontiac service manual, they are
not exactly user friendly, quirky kinda.
The wiring diagrams aren't exactly typical, nor easy to read, and I have
a degree in Electrical Engineering.
About the easiest to do is to use the colors of the wires and the obvious
length match up. In rare cases I've had to trace back to the fuse box.
Often GM used connectors that varied AND only fit one way, which helps.
I thought your engine harness was the problem... which dash circuit(s) are
suspect?
Joe
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I believe the engine harness is most of my troubles ( the whole constant power thing is what is the worst.) I have learned from looking at the cd that there should be no pigtails off the + post of the battery and mine has two going in different directions.
When I looked under the dash, I found some homemade wiring (not alot but some) so I thought it best to test it all and make sure that everything is where it is suppose to be. I priced out a new dash harness and it is 700.00 I just about jumped out of my seat. Soooo, I am going to clean up the original one. I just want to rule out any gremlins that may come back to haunt me.
Someone on here ( I apolgize, I cannot remeber the person name) sent me some wiring diagrams from a chilton manual and it is very nice and easy to follow, I wish Pontiac did the same thing.
What really sucks, is that I have nobody to come over and give me a hand. You know that old rule, two heads are better than one.
All my buddies I would not trust them with a screwdriver!!!!!!!!! But they are great guys and give the shirt of their backs if you asked ;D
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Chilton never built any cars...
Even though we can't come over, we can get the job done.
Here's two pics that show "one" of the dash replacements I've
done.
(http://www.301garage.com/78ta/Dash_Rear.jpg)
(http://www.301garage.com/78ta/Dash_Removed.jpg)
There's ample talent here to answer just about any question,
or get any part. I'd start watching ebay for the main dash harness
as I've found some for under $50. I kinda focus more on '80 and
'81 though, which are different.
Here's a 1980 engine harness that I did a explanatory graphic on:
(http://www.301garage.com/80_Turbo/80_Engine_Harness.jpg)
I've done a lot of tech articles on various topics and am sure we can
get you back up to speed, right here on the forum.
what do you think?
Joe
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WOW, I really appriecate the help, I am going to be printing off the pics and have them beside me when I am in the car working later today. I am quite sure there more than enough talent on this form to help me get my car running perfect in the end.
I hate bugging people that is my problem, I have had quite a few posts and I feel a little embarrassed.
Anyways thank you for taking the time to help me out. Is the last wiring pic you have posted the same as a 1979?
On your first picture, I noticed on the back of the plastic circuit board that you have one hole left unpluged (just below the speedo cable inlet) What is that for, and do you have schematic of that piece so I do not accidently burn out the new one I ordered from classic industries.
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Keep posting. We like helping people.
That harness will differ slightly from a 79, but the basics are the same.
On the plastic film circuit, there are only four things that plug into the back of it. The white cluster connector. The tach connector. The speedo cable. And, the fiber optic light path for illuminating the ash tray.
There is also a plastic "light path" the connects in a slot in the drivers side of the cluster and is fastened to the bottom of the headlight switch. This provides illumination to the wiper/headlight icon.
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Here lets' look closer...
(http://www.301garage.com/78ta/Cluster.jpg)
The open hole is where the lamp/optic line special plug
goes.
You're not bugging anybody...
I and many others have all been down the road you are traveling,
along the way I've photo documented some procedures and have
hundreds and hundreds of pictures.
We want to hear and see the picture of you with your car after
it's all sorted out and working properly.
The cluster's plastic circuit sheet is in the Pontiac Service manual, and
that particular illustration is very good.
Next question?
Joe
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Actually that open slot isn't where the special fiber optic bulb/line goes. On his car, your open slot would be the fasten seat belt light. I think it's just an unused slot on that cluster. They seemed to use the same housing for different years. Notice there's no copper circuit paths going to that slot. Therefore, a bulb couldn't light up.
The special fiber optic line goes where you have the darker color bulb on the top left. The fiber optic bulb/line has to be inserted into one of the cluster illumination slots to allow the fiber optic line to carry the light, faint as it might be, to the ash tray whenever the lights are turned on.
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Right you are...
I have to stop and think which one we are talking about and which
is in the picture... <grin>
I have and work on my '79, '80's and '81's and all three have differences.
Thanks for catching that, since we are not trying to add confusion.
It sounds like the pictures are providing a greater comfort level in the
big picture of his project, which was my hope.
Joe
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Hey Joe,
Thanks for the support, I am doing my best and I think I am getting some stuff sorted out. There was alot of splices. I have a few questions, When I am working on the electrical, I have a battery charger set on 2amps to just keep the battery from going dead.
I after a couple of hours, I noticed that the fuse panel would loose all power and then after about 5 min or so it would have full power again. It keeps on doing this right now. Is there a relay that is shutting it down and reseting?
The fella who had the car before me wired up a electric trunk release, It is the factory button but he defiently did not use factory wiring. I have cut out the wiring under the dash due to all the splicing and guess what, I DONT HAVE CONSTANT POWER ANY MORE!!! It has power at the key like it is suppose to. Yeah for ME!!! ;D ;D And thanks to you.
Do you know how to wire up the trunk release button propperly?
Take alook at the pictures I have included and let me know if you know where this wire goes or is it an accessory for something else. Also the interior lights under the dash were spiced have to hell and back so I was wondering if they even belonged in this car. Can you let me know.
These three wires were running to the passengers side of the car but were spliced multiple times, I cut them back to the original harness, can you see the colour of hte wires and try to figure out what they are or how to test them.
(http://www.78ta.com/gallery2/main.php/d/8897-1/2008-09_sept_-30+010.jpg)
This one is hanging under the drivers side, Any idea's??
(http://www.78ta.com/gallery2/main.php/d/8899-1/2008-09_sept_-30+011.jpg)
These lights were on both sides of the car, but again splice so many times, I cut them out and dont know if I should put them back, I dont see any original wiring to plug the into.
(http://www.78ta.com/gallery2/main.php/d/8901-1/2008-09_sept_-30+013.jpg)
I you need any other pics let me know and I will post them.
Thanks a bunch,
Elliott
Are you sure you want more questions after this one!!
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I forgot to mention that someone somewhere changed the speedo cluster. It is a 1978. I learned this from a earlier post. Does this make things harder for me with that open slot in the board. Do I have to wire it up or can I leave it empty and have no astray light?
I now noticed that I have no power to the rear defrost also. It was on a constant power before and the light came on when activated. I doesnt do anything now? I did not cut any wires going to it, I just unpluged when I was pulling all the wires to see what was what. I plugged the defrost relay back in (that is beside the glovebox) again, I did not cut any wires, I promise. How do you test it?
Thanks, Elliott
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Ok I must be getting tired. I double checked the connection for the rear defrost switch and I notice that I plugged it in backwards!! Damn it.
Right now there is no power to the fuse box. I dont really understand why but I have a feeling that the alternator might be the problem. When I touched it, it was warm, and its damn cold out today so I know its not the sun making it warm. I disonnected the battery charger that was set at 2 amps and I am going to let the car sit for 1/2 hour and then check for power again. What in the alteranator could cut power to the fuse box. I have two extra altanators but before I change it, I just want to make sure that is the problem.
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Never cut factory wires.....That's a hanging offense!!!
The first picture....power trunk release....it takes one of those orange wires....that's always on power, plus the black ground wire. The white wire isn't part of the power trunk release. The black wire goes from the switch to the solenoid in the trunk...that's all the in's and out's of the power trunk release.
The second picture I told you before...that's for the digital clock that you don't have. That should just hang. At least that's what I think that is.
The third picture is a kick panel light. It connects on the dash frame just above the kick panels and provides illumination to the floor when you open the door. There should be one of each side if that option was on the car.
Those kick panel lights are an add on harness to the dash harness. They plug into the dash harness. The best one has not only the kick panel lights, but also the glove box light...AND the connector that connects to the power trunk release terminal.
Follow that orange wire from the power trunk release and you'll see where it connects. That harness could be replaced for about $30...AND stop cutting!!!!!!
On your power to the fuse box, you've got a bad connection somewhere...don't worry about it as it's probably tied to some splice in your old engine harness. If it remains with the new harness, then you may have a bulkhead connection that's bad.
And yes, we like more questions....this is the Trans Am University, where there are no teachers only students. We are all learning from each other.
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>Hey Joe,
>
> I after a couple of hours, I noticed that the fuse panel would loose all
> power and then after about 5 min or so it would have full power again.
> It keeps on doing this right now. Is there a relay that is shutting it
> down and reseting?
No, I'd suspect a bad connection at the battery, or a shorting cell in the
battery itself. These cars had only a very few circuits constantly energized, most
everything else with the key in "run"
The fusebox is like a switchboard, it's a simple thing.
I think, you are getting interrupted flow to the fusebox.
Can you go by a auto parts chain store and have them load test your battery
to eliminate it as the problem?
> The fella who had the car before me wired up a electric trunk release, It is
> the factory button but he defiently did not use factory wiring. I have cut out
> the wiring under the dash due to all the splicing and guess what, I DONT HAVE
> CONSTANT POWER ANY MORE!!! It has power at the key like it is suppose to.
> Yeah for ME!!! And thanks to you.
The trunk lock solenoid was one of the constantly energized circuits, sounds
like he tapped it for other circuits. (and shouldn't have)
Do you know how to wire up the trunk release button propperly?
Yep.
(http://www.301garage.com/78ta/Deck_Release.jpg)
> Take alook at the pictures I have included and let me know if you know where this
> wire goes or is it an accessory for something else.
In the first one, orange/black/white, was used for the power antenna relay, but
that's an informed guess - did the car have a power antenna?
> Also the interior lights under the dash were spiced have to hell and back so I
> was wondering if they even belonged in this car. Can you let me know.
Courtesy lights... you'd need the Build sheet, or PHS docs to know for sure.
> These three wires were running to the passengers side of the car but were spliced
> multiple times, I cut them back to the original harness, can you see the colour of
> hte wires and try to figure out what they are or how to test them.
The brown/orange connector on the drivers side is a radio feed for digital clock
and digital display option. It might not have been used.
> I forgot to mention that someone somewhere changed the speedo cluster. It is a 1978.
> I learned this from a earlier post. Does this make things harder for me with that
> open slot in the board. Do I have to wire it up or can I leave it empty and have no
> astray light?
No, not harder. You can leave it empty, maybe later you'll get back to it.
> I now noticed that I have no power to the rear defrost also. It was on a constant power
> before and the light came on when activated. I doesnt do anything now?
Because I think the guy before patched that and other circuits into a always
"hot" line, which I believe was the Deck lid line.
Electric defrost needs to be on a "run" only line as it would be a big draw.
(http://www.301garage.com/78ta/Defog.jpg)
How we doing?
Joe
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Thanks for the info guys, but, I am at a complete stand still, I have no power in the car at all. no lights, no courtesy lights either. The car does have crank, it cranks over. once when I stopped cranking the volt guage registered then went to 0 volts again. I have unpluged the battery and am not interested in looking at it againg tonight.
I am discouraged with the no power thing going on.
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That white wire is switched ground. By that I mean when a switch is activated it grounds the white wire. In the kick panel light picture you see an orange wire (always hot) and a white wire (switched ground). When a door is opened, the switch in the jab is activated and the white wire is grounded causing the dome light to illuminate and the kick panel lights to illuminate (if so installed).
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the car does not have power antenna,
ta78w72, I promise I never harmed or cut one factory wire so you can put away the noose (lol). I just clipped all the non factory wires that were branching off the original wires.
Hey Joe,
A quote from ta78w72 "The first picture....power trunk release....it takes one of those orange wires....that's always on power, plus the black ground wire. The white wire isn't part of the power trunk release. The black wire goes from the switch to the solenoid in the trunk...that's all the in's and out's of the power trunk release."
Joe you seem to think that the orange, black and white are for the power antenna, If this is the case and I do not have a power antenna, I could just tape them up out of the way?
How could I test them to see if they are for the power lid release.
I must mention that the fella before me added the power lid release. The car apparently never came with this option.
As fustrated as I am with the car right now, I just cannot let my mind think of anything else, I so want to get all this electrical fixed. I know if you guys were here, it probally would be done within 1 hour. I have spent all day and it seems like I fix one problem and get two more problems for my reward.
I am sure with the constant help you guy are giving me I will get it fixed.
Like I said if you need pictures of anything, let me know. Maybe the trunk release wiring in the trunk that the other fella did?
Elliott
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The battery feeds the fusebox.
Power comes through the bulkhead connector
at cavity CY and then the fusebox and potentially
all circuits could be powered. (key in "run")
Here's the engine harness diagram:
(http://www.301garage.com/78ta/Engine_Elec.jpg)
and the detail on the connector on the firewall:
(http://www.301garage.com/78ta/Connector.jpg)
You should be able to verify that the wire going to CY
has power... either a test light or a voltmeter.
Joe
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That orange wire is for the kick panel lights, the glove box lights and the power trunk release. I've explained the white wire above. None of those wires have anything to do with a power antenna.
The power antenna would have a another lead in the black radio connector which causes the antenna to deploy when the radio is turned on. There is also a relay somewhere around the glove box on the back side of the dash that controls the down operation. The down operation needs a always hot lead because people generally don't turn the radio off....they turn the key off, thereby cutting power to the radio. In order for the antenna to come back down....it needs always on power.
I put away the rope...but I've got my eye on you! ;D ;D ;D
Joe is an amazing source for diagrams for you!!! Those should help a lot.
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Well, that orange wire "could" be the Deck release circuit feed
or lights.
Since you've got a serious case of hacked up, I first searched
the wiring diagram for something in that area that used the
orange/black/white wire colors, which would have possibly
been power antenna.
Do you have a voltmeter? a test light?
Maybe we should just see what's hot (key off) and tape them
off for now.
Joe
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ta78w72, Thanks for the advice, you and Joe are my teachers, please be patient with me, I was never a good student.
I have both, a volt meter and a test light. Tell me what to test and i will be on it rght away.
I just guess that will mean date night with the wife will have to wait!!
Elliott
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I wouldn't give up date night with my wife to work on my car!!!! Take your wife somewhere nice! The car will be there when you get home.
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Elliott,
You're right about us being there... It would make it easier, but
since that's not going to happen we'll have to go step after step.
I kinda get the feeling you're trying to fix too many problems at the
same time, plus unknown modifications that make for unique issues.
GM made a lot of wiring harnesses with the provision for options
that may or may not be installed.
I kinda came into this thread after it was rolling, but thought I could
help too. Wiring damage is a common problem for these cars, mostly
from amateur radio installations. Some people for instance, like to be
able to play the radio without the key and often opt for the cigarette
lighter feed wire which is always powered AND close by. The feed
for that also is an orange with black stripe most of the time.
One of the best breakdowns of the main wiring harness is over at
Hogheads
http://www.firebirdtransamparts.com/techinfo/harness/harness.htm
As you can see there's a lot of wires back there, which would be
hard enough to understand, and if hacked...
I'm thinking that before we concentrate on the deck lid release, let's
get some more basic issues verified.
You say to even get electrical function on your electrical system you have
a charger hooked up? If I was there I'd need to know what the battery
voltage is? (without the charger) What is it with the key on or during cranking?
Battery basic condition is step one.
Next, I'd verify battery voltage is reaching the fusebox circuits? The voltmeter
can tell us this. One side of each fuse is the hot side and with a good fuse both
would be - add a ground and test complete. This also verifies part of the engine
harness.
Power to the distribution point (fusebox) is step two.
That's what I'd be doing "if" I was there...
Joe
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Well I thank you for your and Joes advice on how to test the stuff on my car, My wife will get her date. I fixed a few things, I know I said I was not going to go back to the shop tonight but my mind was running circles with ideas that you guys gave me.
So here is the skinny on what I have found.
1) There is a relay attached to the bottom of the defrost ducts, I clicks when you cycle the key forward, it was not doing that when the power was out, The relay has a heavy orange with a black strip coming off it and it has another lighter colour wire that go to the middle of the fuse box. Both wires are a single plug in into the fuse box in the middle, there is a row or plugs to plug stuff in, I think 4 of them.
2) The fella who had the car had the brown fan motor wire pluged into the cigarette lighter as the ground wire. I moved it to the power for the fan and the fan works great on med and high, not on low. Must be the resistor. As long as I know it works I am good for now.
3) The defrost still has constant power even with the key in the off position? But it works so I need to find out where the power is suppose to be coming from and fix that.
4) what is best to test orange with a black tracer going through it, the black wire and the white wire.
5) The fan motor had a black wire plugged into it, It is a original wire, it goes into the main harness of the dash, so I WILL NOT CUT IT, I like my feet on the ground LOL. I wonder where it goes? Could that be the ground for the cigarette lighter? If I test it and it shows not power I guess it is a ground and I could plug it in on the lighter outer body. So I get it right, the power wire is in the middle of the lighter and the ground goes on the side?
6) From the trunk pop switch, the fella before me ran a white wire along the passengers side of the car into the trunk and hooked the wire to the release. I cut out the hack job that was feeding the power to the switch (multiple splices of different kinds of wire and colours). Where should I look for a honest good 12+ feed to the switch. If the Orange wire with the black trace in it has constant 12+ could I use that? I have not tested any of those 3 wires yet.
Well thats my update, now onto better things like my wife. (hope she likes the back seat of the car)!!!!!!
Elliott
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Joe was right about the courtesy wire color...orange/with a black strip.
1. That relay you're referring to could be the key minder buzzer but it's hard to tell without a picture.
2. That's not good. That brown line should go to blower motor switch. That should power the motor whenever the key is on.
3. Unplug it and work on the other stuff first. I'm too tired to address it....Joe might want to take it on...but you need some successes first. By the way, is that the original defogger switch, or has it been replaced?
4. With a volt meter. That should have power when the key is on.
5. That black wire is your ground for the blower motor. You can test it with an ohm meter. One lead on the connector at the blower motor and the other lead on the engine. Your meter should indicate no resistance. They fail though. I added a redundant ground to my car as well as my daughters car.
6. The color of the wire doesn't matter....but the factory used black (I thought your picture showed three wires...a black, orange with black stripe and a white one). Use one wire from the solenoid that runs along the trunk harness into the cabin behind the plastic side panels and into the wire tray to the drivers side kick panel. It fits in a metal tab on the drivers side under the kick panel and then travels with the dash harness to the glove box area.
Original wires for that are very hard to come by. They usually get cut because they are almost impossible to disconnect from that solenoid. The orange wire with the black stripe is correct for the power trunk release.
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ok, I dont fully understand, the orange with the black tracer which is in the picture is for what again, the trunk release or the courtesy lights? I read you post and I am getting mixed messages. Sorry for my lack of education on wiring.
Th defrost can be turned on or off without having the key in the run position,the key can be in any position. Sorry if I mislead you to believe that it was always on. I believe it is the original switch.
The black wire was plugged in where the brown wire was suppose to be plugged in. I plugged it into the cigarette lighter as a ground and I killed all the power to the dash again. The dash came back alive after 1/2 hour. Wont do that again.
Elliott
I will take a picture of the relay I was talking about tomorrow. I actually wrote it wrong earlier, the relay clicks when you turn the key into the off position. It really is a loud metalic sound.
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The trunk release is powered by the orange wire with the black stripe. That's always on power. That same power source, with the same color wire, orange with a black stripe, also powers the dome light, the kick panel lights and the glove box light.
The defrost circuit should not come on unless the key is in the run position. So, you'll need to trace the power wire (I've forgotten what color it is) back to the fuse box. Didn't Joe post a graphic of the circuit?
The blower motor needs to be grounded, so you'll have to sort that out. It needs the brown wire...for power and a black wire for ground.
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Hey guys,
what I did today was test the orange/black wire and it was 12+ constant. I hooked that up to the trunk switch and tada!! the trunk works. 1 down and 999 to go. I tested the white wire, it has 12+ but goes to ground when the dome light is turned on. That must be the switch ground that ta78w72 was talking about. Can I hook up the lower courtesy lights to this wire? I am thinking I could, and it should make the lights come one when the door is opened. I wont do it until you guys give me the ok with that.
The black wire I am going to tape off since the fella before me ran a new wire to the trunk already. here is his wire, it runs down the passengers side.
(http://www.78ta.com/gallery2/main.php/d/8970-1/2008-09_sept_-30+020.jpg)
I have one last black wire that I think goes to the cigarette lighter for it's ground. it has a connector on the end so I have included the pic of that
(http://www.78ta.com/gallery2/main.php/d/8962-1/2008-09_sept_-30+015.jpg)
I noticed a splice going to the fuse box, it runs up to the two prong connector which attaches to the speedo cluster any Idea why the splice or how it is suppose to look, also can you look to see if the wires in the middle of the fuse box are in the right order.
(http://www.78ta.com/gallery2/main.php/d/8964-1/2008-09_sept_-30+017.jpg)
I have taken a picture of the box that I was chatting about earlier.
(http://www.78ta.com/gallery2/main.php/d/8960-1/2008-09_sept_-30+014.jpg)
And finally here is the mess I have been working with .
(http://www.78ta.com/gallery2/main.php/d/8968-1/2008-09_sept_-30+021.jpg)
Elliott
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Ok here I go again, things were looking up today, everthing was working today, the only problem I had was the defrost switch being able to turn off and on with the key out of the car. This is minor to me, I do want to fix that but as Joe has said, start slow and work forward.
So I was making the harness neat and tidy this morning and making sure that it was not tugging anyware. I decided to wire up the interior floor lights by attaching the orange/black wire to the the orange/black of the wire of the lights and the white wire from the dash to the white wires of the lights, I tested it before making final permanent connects and it worked great.
Then when I pulled apart the orange/black wires the orange/black coming from the dash which is carring the 12+ touch the frame and all went dark :(. Just like yesterday, no power in the car at all, execpt the crank wire position. I can crank the car over. all the fuses are good but no power on either side ???.
This has to be something simple, I dont know what it is and it is really fustrating, I cannot do anymore work on the car until I get power back. I load tested the battery and it show 13+ volts and 12.5+ under load.
I pulled the block off the car and checked the connections, no rot anywhere and there is power at the fz and cy wires have power. This was tested by putting a test light into the block from the firewall. I dont know if the power is going through, but you would think it would be going through if the connectors are not rotted.
This should make you guys scratch your head for a minute or two.!!
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Good job on both the power trunk release and the courtesy lights. You're leaning fast!
That relay....it's for your power windows and should fasten on the passenger side of the steering column support. It's in a hard place to describe...and get to.
That pink wire with a black stripe that's in the fuse box feeds the power window relay and the tach. Notice the orange wire above it? That's the power for your power windows.
That black wire in the second picture has me kind of stumped. The black wires are ground and that particular connector is identical to the one that's used for the power trunk release. Will that wire stretch to where the switch mounts?
We can address the defogger once you make some more progress.
As far as the orange wire with the black stripe touching the frame....are you saying you shorted it against the frame? If so, you blew a fuse. Disconnect the battery when you work with the electrical stuff to avoid those problems. But let us know if you really did short that wire....because there are fusible links that could have burned out too.
Also, don't stress about the power from the battery....just yet. You need to replace that crappy engine harness. I suspect that could be some of your problem.
You do realize that you owe Joe and I a couple of beers each, don't you?
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A couple of beers?? I owe you guys a couple of kegs!!! Just make your way to Canada and I promise a time of your life. Great food and lots of beer.( I love to bbq) I am 5 minutes away from the border to N.Y state.
I should mention that the fella wired a 40 amp relay system under the center console for the windows, It did work at when I got the car but I cut one of the wires for his relay system. That wire that was going to the heavy orange/black guage wire on the fuse box. Fom looking at the schematics I should be hooking the wire I cut back to that orange/black wire
the windows were fast going up and down, He got the schematics from this site on how to wire it up. I have left the wire off for now. I will take a picture of the schematics and post them on the bottom of this page.
The black wire will not stretch, Thats as far as it goes, would that wire be the ground for the cigarette lighter? Or could it be the other black wire that was in the picture with the orange/black, white wire
Once the orange/black wire touched the frame the car went out, all power inside except for the crank on the ignition. The fuse box went dead, no power in it at all, all the fuses are good, I used a continutiy tester and it beeps across every fuse. Its wierd, having power and then absolutely nothing. I tested the batter again to see if it was shorting but it had a good charge and it load tested fine.
One other thing I noticed today was that when I pushed in on the wiper switch the dome light would go out? The wiper motor is not installed yet.
I dont know if it matters but I need a drivers side dome switch pin. Mine is broken, the little rod came flying out at me, I have it hanging at the moment in the car, the wire are still attached to it. Would that bugger things up?
I am not worried about the defroster at this moment, like you said, we will tackle that later. As long as I know it works, It can be fixed later.
Here is the schematic of the relay system in this car for the windows.
(http://www.78ta.com/gallery2/main.php/d/8972-1/2008-09_sept_-30+022.jpg)
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You're most likely right. That black wire is the ground for the cigarette lighter...and the orange wire there (should have a black stripe) is the power source for the cigarette lighter.
That's the schematic for the power windows that was put out on this site. It's a good one. Use what he did if he followed that diagram. It's a good design.
Also, you've got your steering column bracket out. That's part of your ground system. So, you could get some weird results...like with your wiper switch if that bracket isn't installed. It's the one that goes under the column and ties the dash frame together. For the time being, you could run a jumper to close that gap...understand what I'm talking about here? Because most people wouldn't identify that bracket with any wiring problems.
I don't understand the problem with the dome light....what type of dome light is it? Does it have reading lights on either side or is it the plain round one?
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That's the schematic for the power windows that was put out on this site. It's a good one. Use what he did if he followed that diagram. It's a good design.
It's the design that GM *should* have used on the car originally.
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You mean to say I have something good in the car!! The relays are all in and installed, I cut the main power for the relays that was attached to the heavy guage orange/black wire in the middle of the fuse box. Should I reinstall it there or find another spot for it.
The door jamb switch has two connetors on it. The button that pushes in to turn off the dome light popped out at me. so I couldnt get the dome light to go off so I pulled the rest of the switch out of the door pillar and unhooked the wires for now.
So if I take a jumper wire and just tie it from my column to the dash bracket bolts that might stop some of the wierd stuff?
The cigarette lighter main power is orange with a black stripe. To make sure I hook it up right, the power wire goes to the middle plug in of the cigarette lighter and the black one goes to the outer side plug in.
I will let you know if I get power tomorrow.
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Have you ever stumbled upon something and your day seems perfect afterwards. :)
This happened to me today, I was really @#%& about the no power thing and then by chance, I moved the shifter a little, just enough from park pulling downwards towards reverse but not getting into reverse, then the car came alive with power throughout :o.
I pushed up on the shifter and the power went out :o.
I know that the fella before me put all the relays for the windows in the center column. So the shifter must be touching something causing the power to cut out.
I cannot really get into pulling the shifter out right now, I am painting today (every damn bedroom, and I hate painting), but you can bet when I am finished I will be working on this problem. ;D
Elliott
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while I am between coats of paint, I went outside to start putting things back where they go.
I started with the cigarette lighter. The orange black wire has constant live and the black wire has no power (ground) but here is the problem, When I plug the wires into the lighter, I blow the fuse? I took out the lighter and took it apart and cleaned it on the wire wheel, there was some rust between the casings. It still blows the fuse. Can I just run a ground to the frame. Just incase that black wire is for something else and not cigeratte lighter.
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You know, I've never looked at which connector goes where on the cigarette lighter. Try reversing the connectors and see if you blow a fuse. But that black wire is ground...we know that for sure. And we know that the orange and black wire is always hot. We also know that the cigarette lighter uses a black wire and a orange/black stripe wire. So, you got the right wires. If switching the wires doesn't work, you'll need to replace the cigarette lighter. But you bring up a good point. You really don't know if that black wire has been spliced. To check, use your ohm meter. One lead on the connector blade of the black wire...the other lead on the dash frame or body of the car at a point where you get good ground. If there is no resistance...you've got a good ground lead.
On the dash jumper....go from the drivers side of the frame to the steering column support and from the passenger side of the dash frame to the steering column support. This might be a little different than what I said previously, but I want to make sure you get both sides of the frame grounded. The frame is really two pieces of metal...tied together by the steering column support that sits right under the column. You've pulled that off....I believe.
That little door jamb switch...I've never taken one out so I'm not exactly sure how it fastens to the door jamb. Maybe someone else can chime in here and lend you a hand.
The new power door harness uses that existing relay...so you need to fasten that up by the column like it was when the car left the factory.
On your shifter....yep, the shifter rotates the column which controls the neutral start switch. That disables the current flow and ensures that you can't start the car in gear.
Geez, pretty soon you'll get your masters degree from the University of Trans Am's!!!! With a concentration in advanced electrical automotive engineering.
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So I bought a new lighter and guess what it works perfect. The only think I had to do and DO NOT HANG ME FOR THIS!! I had to cut the original connector off the orange/black wire. The new lighter had a different connection on it so, I had not choice.
I have put back the heater assembly, It works great.
I have put the cigarette lighter back and the rear defrost, They also work great.
I have put back the headlight switch and wiper motor switch. They also work great now.
I am hoping to put back the speedo cluster tomorrow and put the face plate back on. I will let you know how it is going.
I also noticed that the power does not go out now with moving the shifter around. Could it be that when I plugged everything back in that solved that issue?
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Next time, rather than cut the connector off make a little stub wire with a blade on one end and the correct connector on the other. Plug the blade into the old connector and the new connector onto the terminal.
You're making great progress! You should be proud of yourself.
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I still have the original connector and it makes sense what you said, I will put it back on and make the connector like you said.
Your right I have made some really great progress but I couldn't of done it without you and Joe. I would be shivering in a corner sucking my thumb is you guys didnt help me LOL.
Where would you hook up the main feed from the relays that the fella before me hooked up. Should I tap it into the heavy orange wire in the fuse box. Let me know what you think.
You wouldnt happen to have a picture of where the window relay goes would you. You said it was hard to describe and really hard to get to, so I you can help with that it would be great. I could just leave it where it is if all else fails.
Elliott
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I don't have a picture of where that relay connects but it connects on the passenger side of the steering column support towards the firewall.
On the power source for the window, it's up to you where to get the power from. The original designer of that circuit envisioned power directly from the battery...but it would need to be fuse protected.
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thanks, I will look at where I can get the power from. out of curiosity, where would you get the power from?
I am guessing that there is some place on the steering column that has somewhat of a holder for the relay or bolt holes?
Once again thanks for all the help, I did not touch the car today, Its was a family day.
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There's a hole in the steering column support for that relay. It's hard to see though.
As for power, I really haven't thought about where I'd get power from. I would be tempted to run a line from the battery though.
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Hi Guys, sorry to duck out - I had to work all weekend.
First with regard to the relay for power windows. Hoghead
has two pics that help see it.
(http://www.firebirdtransamparts.com/techinfo/harness/ipharness.jpg)
(http://www.firebirdtransamparts.com/techinfo/harness/dash1.jpg)
and then I read about the "orange" wire... I had to grin...
Here's the back of a fuse panel:
(http://www.301garage.com/78ta/Fuse_Back.jpg)
As to a "power" source, how about just a split off of one of the plug-in
add-on accessory connectors on the front of the fuse panel? like GM
itself did...
lemme catch up on the power interruption symptom?
Joe
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Now that Joe mentions it...there is an unused accessory lead on the harness. I'm not sure exactly where it is but I believe it may be the brown wire that also powers the blower motor. That may be a good place to pull power from. But you should check the fuse to make sure it can handle that power. Or, you could always tap into the original power source to the switch. Now that I think about it, that's where I was intending to pull power.
Welcome back Joe!!!
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Hey Joe, glad to see your back, hope work was good.
I am working days for Monday and Tuesday from 7am to 7pm so I can only work on the car at night.
I took off the center console and I found out why the car was shorting out. I dont understand it but I know what it is doing.
I get sparks from the shifter cable when I wiggle it??
When the shifter cable makes a good ground the car has full power inside, and when it does not both signal light indicators come on, the battery voltage goes low and the fan motor goes real slow also amoung other things.
Why is the car looking for a ground from the shifter cable?
I unhooked the shifter cable and it was hot? Like I said, when I rub it against the bolts that hold down the shifter, all electrical problems go away.
Did I mention, I have the beer in the fridge!!
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The only electrical thing I can think of at the shifter is illumination. Is there a gray wire with a bulb? The new power window wiring isn't anywhere near there is it?
Maybe Joe has some ideas.
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Ok here is what I am looking at, the grey wire is there and the illumination bulb is intact and works.
The relays are grounded to the shifter, I took off the ground and it made no difference.
You can see in one pic that I have the shifter cable resting on the shifter and it does not spark and the power is great in the car.
If I take the shifter cable off completely, the electrical goes funny in the car as I have mentioned earlier,
If I take the shifter cable and rub it up and down the sides of the shifter, it throws sparks.
I hope this helps.
(http://www.78ta.com/gallery2/main.php/d/9093-1/2008-09_sept_-30+024.jpg)
(http://www.78ta.com/gallery2/main.php/d/9095-1/2008-09_sept_-30+025.jpg)
(http://www.78ta.com/gallery2/main.php/d/9099-1/2008-09_sept_-30+027.jpg)
(http://www.78ta.com/gallery2/main.php/d/9101-1/2008-09_sept_-30+028.jpg)
(http://www.78ta.com/gallery2/main.php/d/9097-1/2008-09_sept_-30+026.jpg)
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Disconnect that ground wire for the power windows and measure it for current. You could always try a jumper from that ground spot to the body of the car and see if you still get the same results. I believe it's the power window mod that's causing the problem. Don't cut anything though. Get your volt meter and measure for current at the proper terminal of each relay...use the schematic. Make sure the relay's aren't shorting out against the floorpan. Double check the wiring to the relay's against the schematic. It would be real easy to install a wire in the wrong slot.
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BINGO!
Someone thought the shifter assembly would make a good gound...
Many times sheeting with a gooy, tarry nature overlaps into/onto the
mounting holes for the shifter assembly. Great idea, bad execution. Looks
like the solenoids depend on the shifter assembly for a good ground.
Here's the deal folks, automotive circuits use the body/chassis as one side
of the circuit ( like a wire) and so a good metal to metal contact is required.
Either remove and clean the shifter assembly mounts or reroute the ground,
this may vanquish a good portion of your troubles.
and , ah, Molson is one of my favs, followed by LeBatt's. Be careful about
mentioning free beer, I'm an airline employee and can fly for free and have
been known to show up for less... <grin>
Joe
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I disconnected the ground wire that feeds the relays from the shifter and it made no difference. I will have to check tomorrow night for the current, but the windows work fine so I not sure thats the problem. Trust me I will not cut anything!!
When you say measure it for current, do you mean when I disconnet the ground wire, you want me to put one lead on the ground wire and the other lead to the frame of the car and see if I get current?
I know the relays are not shorting out against the floor pan. They are screwed to a aluminun plate that is just sitting on the carpet. The carpet is new and has no holes in it where the relays are.
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Hey Joe,
I will reroute the grounds tomorrow night, I will unhook them and just use a jumper cable for a test. Should I do the same for the illumination bulb also.
FREE BEER FOR YOU GUYS AND ALL YOU CAN DRINK!!!!!!!!!!
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Hey Joe,
I knew I would not sleep If I didnot go and try your suggestion, and sorry to say, it made no difference. I grounded the relays out against the steering column and then tried other area's using a jumper wire and still did the same thing.
The volt guage goes to zero and I lose all power to the fuse panel when I take the shifter cable off the shifter. As I have mentioned earlier, the signal indicators come on bright when I take the shift cable off the shifter.
NO BEER FOR YOU until this one is solved!! LOL
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Do you still have the jumpers on the dash to the steering column? That steering column bracket could make a difference.
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I removed all the jumpers, I was getting ready to put everything back together.
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Well... from what I'm reading, the shifter "cable" is the only ground path
that's really working. Needless to say, that's not right.
Do you have continuity between the top most metal of the shifter assembly
and the vehicle's ground (chassis)? your pics show a wire drivers side forward
using that assembly as ground.
Are the engine to chassis ground straps present? is there continuity?
Joe
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I was at work today and it was bugging me and I had the same thought. Is the engine ground hooked up? and the answer is NO!! it's not. I am going to hook it up and see what that does. I am quite sure that will solve the problem. I will let you know what happens.
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Ok here we go, BINGO!! engine ground was off. The shifter was acting like the main ground for the car, I am sooooo close to having all the problems fixed, just one more thing to fix and I am done on all the electrical stuff.
When I have the interior light on and I push the wiper button for fluid, the dome light goes out? The wipers work fine, I do not have the wiper motor bolted to the car, I just plugged it in and ran a ground wire to the firewall to test it. Any Ideas
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Have you installed the steering column bracket? That might help.
Joe, good call on the engine ground!
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No I havent installed that yet, I am waiting till tomorrow to do that. Thanks so much for your help, you and Joe are real assests to this form.
I kinda lied about having one thing left, It's not a big concern but I noticed the clock was not working, How can I test it and is it typical for them not to work?
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Grounding the Dash properly is a very common problem.
Grounds are one half of the circuit, in other words... if the grounds
don't work - nothing electrical functions.
The steering column bracket IS a big part of the ground path for anything
that's in the dash (it's anchor points/bolts left and right also). That's why ta78w72
is mentioning it. It may not have responded before because the the other (engine)
grounds weren't functional.
Glad to hear it's all coming together, I hate to hear that a free beer supply is in danger...
<grin>
I'd mount the thing to test it, I think I found that jumpers didn't help one time that I
tried the same thing.
The clocks can be repaired/replaced, fortunately that's a well beaten path.
As far as help, our thanks are picturing yet another TA owner smiling as they fire-up and
roll into the flow of traffic. You are part of a special community here...
Joe
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Well Joe, The Beer is never in danger ( I had to use a scare tactic you know), If ever either of you guys get out this way, I promise a hell of a good time. I will put the steering column up tomorow and let you know what happens. I will also mount the wiper motor to make sure.
I think I will just leave the clock alone, I am not concerned about it. Someday I will look into getting it fixed
Hell, you guys have given such good advice, if you told me is was a wise idea to dance a jig before hooking up the battery, I would consider that also LOL
Elliott
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Now that I have put the column back and bolted everything tight and plugged the signal switch in and bolted the wiper motor onto the car and plugged that in, the wiper switch still does the same thing.
After closes examination, I have noticed that I can just barely touch the switch and not even set off the washer and the dome light goes out. Could the switch be faulty?
Any idea's how to test the switch, why would the wiper switch affect the dome light, is the question.
The door jamb switch on the drivers door is broken, could that have something to do with it? I am getting a new one today hopefully from the dealer.
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The dome light comes on with full rotation of the headlight/parking light
switch (inst panel dimmer), in addition to opening the door.
Since the wiper switch AND the headlight switch are sitting in very close
proximity - with their wires lying just about next to each other, I'm thinking
maybe they might have a common ground...
Lemme think about that a bit, (and look at the diagram).
Joe
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Ok, you think about that and I will sit here, drink beer and wait patiently.
Elliott
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Well the wiper switch does use a instrument panel
ground... the headlight/dome does not...
Pulse wipers? or standard?
Do the instrument panel lights work and change
intensity?
The wipers work?
Joe
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It is standard wipers,
The instrument panel lights work and change intensity.
The wipers work.
When I push for fluid the wiper motor clicks? it is still turning but the little cam under the plastic cover clicks up and down once.
The fluid motor on the bottle does not work, I put a jumper right to the battery and the little motor on the bottom of the bottle does nothing.
Out of curiosity, why is there a little motor on the bottom of the fluid bottle if the wiper motor has it built in?
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Sounds like the mechanical function of the wiper assembly's cams are
functioning. There's a repair kit for the fluid function parts, it's a common
problem.
But there's no motor in the bottle on my '79...
When you had the wiper switch out, was the back plate secure and the
terminals protected with the little cover that doesn't fit real perfect?
Joe
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I will have to pull the switch tomorrow and check what the wires on the switch.
It does not make sense to have motor on the bottle. I dont even know where it would get its feed from to power it. Do you have the wiring schemetics of the wipers?
Elliott
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The wiper motor detail is in the Fischer Body/Chassis manual, did
you get that included in your CD purchase?
The '79 Pontiac service manual has the up to the connector
diagram, it's pretty well marked.
Are you going to diagnose the switch?
Joe
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I have the CD and I looked through it, but all I could find was complete electrical wiring schemetics for the whole car. I tried to follow the diagrams but I did not see the wipers in there. I will check the fisher body/chassis manual, I dont think I looked at that part of the CD.
I just want to see where the wires come from to feed the wiper, maybe I will notice something different with the wiring in this car. Could the wiper switch be grounding out in itself?
I am going to look at a complete 79-80 t/a tonight for parts. The fella does not know what year it is, it has been parked in his barn for 15 or so years. He said he would like to get 500.00 for it so if I can use any of the electrical, I will purchase it.
If it has a complete dash, I will swap the wiper switch to see if it makes a difference.
Elliott
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> I have the CD and I looked through it, but all I could find was complete
> electrical wiring schemetics for the whole car. I tried to follow the
> diagrams but I did not see the wipers in there.
(http://www.301garage.com/78ta/Wiper_W.jpg)
> I will check the fisher body/chassis manual, I dont think I looked at
> that part of the CD.
Here's one of the fine illustrations from it...
(http://www.301garage.com/78ta/Wiper_Low.jpg)
The manuals are a fountain of knowledge, gotta get used to their way of
thinking though...
> I just want to see where the wires come from to feed the wiper, maybe
> I will notice something different with the wiring in this car. Could the
> wiper switch be grounding out in itself?
It's a simple switch and "IS SUPPOSED" to ground through the black wire
to the instrument panel ground. (I think that's circuit 150 top pic)
> If it has a complete dash, I will swap the wiper switch to see if it
> makes a difference.
If you get one, try it, but inspect what you have as well...
Joe
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Thanks for the diagrams, I honestly did my best. I am going to take the cd to work and when I have down time, I will print off the whole damn thing. That might make it easier to follow.
I looked at the wiring today, and I cannot find anything out of place, everything tests good. As far as I can tell.
I hook hose to the wiper washer and put it into a jug of water. The washer fluid pumps like hell for the first 5 seconds and then loses all pressure.
The black cam wheel on the washer unit stops at almost a full rotation and sticks there, so the plunger arm cannot fully move in and out.
No matter what you do, when you turn on the wipers, the fluid want to pump. I dont even press in on the wiper button.
Is it possible to hook up the wiper switch connector backwards?
Elliott
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Nope that connector, like many others, fits one way.
I have tried a couple of times to repair wiper/washer assemblies,
never with success as there are odd relays and cams in them.
It sounded at first like it might have just been a switch problem,
especially with the dome light adding to it..., but I think now you
should just replace the wiper/washer assembly.
Actually, they are not real expensive and you'll want that system
to work correctly.
I've had two with failed relays, which I could never locate and had
all kinds of odd behavior until I just ponied-up for a re maned assembly.
The last two I did (replaced with re maned) have worked like new since.
Joe
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Thanks Joe,
I might just have to buy a new one. wiper motor is new, its just the washer part that is screwing up.
I went to look at the other 79 t/a tonight and it has pulse delay wiper set up on it, could I just take the switch and motor and put it in or is the wiring not the same.
He has a complete car and I am torn on just buying what I need for 200.00 or the whole car for 500.00
For 200.00 I get the complete steering column, rad bottle and washer bottle, 2 perfect snow flake rims, wiper motor and switch, proportional valve and odd bits here and there.
I just dont want to junk up my driveway with a car for the winter. WIFE WONT BE TOO IMPRESSED!! ;D
Elliott
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Did you find the washer section in the manual?
Don't make the Lady of the house mad, this hobby only
works right when she is happy too!
<grin>
Joe
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she wont mind one more car
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500 for the whole car is pretty good if the floors and frame are still good
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So I have promised the earth and moon to her and she gave me the ok to buy this extra car and it really is in good shape (floors are solid and the frame is awesome), it has been stored in a barn for 15 yrs It has not seen snow or any other weather elements. Its a complete car, with everything power and a very nice T-top. Anybody need parts!!!
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pics? why part out a saveable ta
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I need some parts, so when I am done with it, it will be a parts car. or a restoration job for someone. Which ever brings in the most cash.
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the parts will bring more money but not save a good trans am
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The wiper information is in the body manual not the service manual. There's a whole trouble shooting section...but save yourself some time and replace it.
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I am looking at changing the whole wiper system to a pulse wiper system. The other car I bought has pulse so I amgoing to look into changing it over if its not too hard.
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Be careful. There are two types of pulse wipers. The switches are different for the two types. I forget what year they changed but I think it was 1980...but don't quote me on that.
The 78/79 had a wiper switch that had seven wires while the later switch had five. Note in the picture, the switch on the left is the later version. Four of the wires are the same on both switches. However, the timing circuit is different. On the later switch there's only a green resistance wire. On the 78/79 switch there's the power circuit that's part of the timing harness. These switches are not interchangeable.
The wiper unit itself is different also. So, you need to make sure you get the correct unit for your car.
In addition, the pump is located along with the motor on the pulse systems. Check your washer bottle to see if it has a pump in it. If so, you'll need to swap washer bottles and you may have to reroute the wiring from the pump in the washer bottle to the pump on the wiper motor.
The harness is routed from the pulse system down through the firewall along with the tach wire. You should see the entry point near the bottom of the firewall on the drivers side. Although I have seen some pulse systems that enter through a hole in the firewall directly behind the carburetor. Don't cut the wires. You should be able to get them out by unplugging them at the motor and switch and popping out the grommet in the firewall.
The picture was too large to post...sorry.
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Good to know that piece of advice, I do know that the washer pump is on the wiper, on the other car and it is the same way on my car.
I was planning on pulling all the wiring out of the other car and putting it in my car.
I am going to test it first in the other car to make sure it works before doing anything.