Author Topic: a bit of work on my 77 TA  (Read 38748 times)

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Offline joe d

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Re: a bit of work on my 77 TA
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2012, 03:53:23 PM »
are the heads off this engine? removal of plugs will release pressure for ease of pistons sliding in cylinder, as for the crankshaft, it is impossible to remove without removing timing chain and rod bolts as for setting on tdc not sure on that one, but you will want to make sure you can see the marks and mark them just in case the cam moves, as you mentioned earlier about the pistons popping out and rings falling off, this will not happen unless the heads are off and you push one up
1979 ws6 trans am (current project)
2005 mercedes s55
2001 dodge durango
1980 SE trans am (new current project)
1971 Monte Carlo
the 5 p's "perfect planning prevents poor performance"

Offline Schroeder

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Re: a bit of work on my 77 TA
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2012, 04:01:55 PM »
are the heads off this engine? removal of plugs will release pressure for ease of pistons sliding in cylinder, as for the crankshaft, it is impossible to remove without removing timing chain and rod bolts as for setting on tdc not sure on that one, but you will want to make sure you can see the marks and mark them just in case the cam moves, as you mentioned earlier about the pistons popping out and rings falling off, this will not happen unless the heads are off and you push one up

The heads are not off.  I figured that was why the plugs should be taken out.  I realize it is impossible to remove without taking off the timing chain and rod bolts.  Well can't the rings pop off if I pull the pistons down too far (like pop off on the oil pan side of the engine)? 

As stated several times throughout this thread, I am learning on the mechanical side of the engine and am unsure what marks you guys are talking about.  Sorry for my ignorance.  I have not looked into this much.  You guys are just talking about the cam moving in case I have to re-time the engine.  Correct?

Also, my build date on the cowl tag is 12B.  I'm assuming this means it was built in December of 76 (keep in mind this is a 77 TA).  Does this mean I will need the metallic strato blue for my engine?  Will one or two cans do my engine?  Does eastwood mix a paint like this?  what color were the exhaust manifolds originally?  I would like to get that paint from eastwood because I've heard good things about their high-temp paints and I don't want to be doing all this again!

Offline joe d

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Re: a bit of work on my 77 TA
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2012, 04:13:06 PM »
okay cool,
the chances of the pistons coming out the bottom are slim unless you pull one out, as you pull the rod caps off be sure to mark them and put back on correct rods, then install stud booties to protect the crank journal and slide the piston upward into the cylinder. the marks we are refering to are the timing marks on the crank gear and cam sprocket, these marks line up the cam and yes you will have to set the ignition timing once you are done but you do not want to have the cam timing off, so mark the sprockets once you remove the timing cover and be sure to install them back where they were, usually a small dot on each, the sprockets only go on one way but the cam can move during your work (unlikely) but it can. dont forget the stud booties or any type of thin rubber boot
1979 ws6 trans am (current project)
2005 mercedes s55
2001 dodge durango
1980 SE trans am (new current project)
1971 Monte Carlo
the 5 p's "perfect planning prevents poor performance"

Offline Schroeder

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Re: a bit of work on my 77 TA
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2012, 10:12:30 PM »
well guys did some work on the muncie 2nite.  Ran into murphy  >:(  Really discouraged right now.  Can't get the 3-4 hub on right now, don't know if my synchros are on right, and have doubts.  Here are some pics.  The first pic shows the cleaned and painted case.









Offline Schroeder

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Re: a bit of work on my 77 TA
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2012, 09:52:46 PM »
Well guys I know so far this has pretty much been a transmission rebuild thread, but it is a large part of the work I have to do to the car.  The interesting stuff will start coming in a couple weeks.  Then maybe this thread will be a little more interesting.  I got a LOT of stuff done on the transmission today, but I hit a wall at about 4 o'clock.  When I shift the slider into either first or second it acts like it's in two gears.  Hopefully I hear back from lilski through PMs and/or Kevin at the gearbox (btw, the gearbox has unbeatable prices and they have helped me with MANY questions and through emails.  I suggest anyone rebuilding a transmission get parts there!) and can resolve this issue tomorrow. 

There are a lot of pics I could post, but I'm just posting the final result of today.


Offline Schroeder

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Re: a bit of work on my 77 TA
« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2012, 10:28:52 PM »
spent all night getting my muncie together.  Right when I was done I realized something wasn't working because I forgot a piece.  I'm so angry.  I'm losing momentum and drive because of this transmission.  I want to throw it across the shop floor!  I'm really wishing I would have paid someone else $300 to do it.  This sucks. 

Offline Schroeder

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Re: a bit of work on my 77 TA
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2012, 09:18:43 PM »
well guys the transmission is almost all apart again because I ordered some seals after destroying some of my first ones from multiple assemblies and reassemblies.  I also decided that I do need a new 1st gear.  There is no way around it.

Anyway, I also got the harmonic balancer, timing cover, fuel pump, and water pump off tonight.  The timing gears and chain look brand new don't they?  I don't know anything about this stuff though so correct me if I'm wrong.








Offline joe d

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Re: a bit of work on my 77 TA
« Reply #37 on: June 28, 2012, 06:28:26 AM »
it does look new and yes those are seals that should now be replaced, how does the crank look? keep your cool with the tranny
1979 ws6 trans am (current project)
2005 mercedes s55
2001 dodge durango
1980 SE trans am (new current project)
1971 Monte Carlo
the 5 p's "perfect planning prevents poor performance"

Offline iceman

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Re: a bit of work on my 77 TA
« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2012, 07:14:37 PM »
Chain looks good providing there isn't more thab 3/16" of wiggle in it. Fuel pumps are a mystery and leak when they go bad. I'd paint it up pretty and get it ready to go back on. The 'sleeves', ir the rubber is still soft- as in your fingernail can indent it, it's OK. The water pump. OK, you have a cast impeller-that's a good thing. You can improve the cooling of your Pontiac motor here. It you tap the plate with a dead blow hammer until there is a small gap between the plate and impeller. This is in Jim Hand's book on Pontiac motors and I swear by it. Patience on the Muncie or anything by that matter. This stuff takes time and if it was easy, these cars would be everywhere still. You are doing great. I had my Muncie done and I compliment you on doing your own. I'm in my mid fourties and am happy to tell you that you are doing a great job and I appreciate your efforts! Keep up the good work! Mike
Check out my facebook page: River City Muscle LLC
1969 Pontiac GTO
1971 Pontiac LeMans Sport Convertible
1977 Pontiac Trans Am

Offline Schroeder

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Re: a bit of work on my 77 TA
« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2012, 04:40:43 PM »
Chain looks good providing there isn't more thab 3/16" of wiggle in it. Fuel pumps are a mystery and leak when they go bad. I'd paint it up pretty and get it ready to go back on. The 'sleeves', ir the rubber is still soft- as in your fingernail can indent it, it's OK. The water pump. OK, you have a cast impeller-that's a good thing. You can improve the cooling of your Pontiac motor here. It you tap the plate with a dead blow hammer until there is a small gap between the plate and impeller. This is in Jim Hand's book on Pontiac motors and I swear by it. Patience on the Muncie or anything by that matter. This stuff takes time and if it was easy, these cars would be everywhere still. You are doing great. I had my Muncie done and I compliment you on doing your own. I'm in my mid fourties and am happy to tell you that you are doing a great job and I appreciate your efforts! Keep up the good work! Mike

Thanks a lot for the compliments and encouragement iceman!  I may get ahold of you through PMs about the water pump modifications when I get closer to dealing with it.  I did find this thread about the mod you are speaking of.  I have to read more on it though. http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/showthread.php?t=411256&page=56

A better link yet to information on the mod in case anyone else is interested in this too  --> http://www.firebirdnation.com/forums/topic/17258-water-pump-mod/

Well there was a HUGE storm with 90-100 mph winds.  We lost a lot of trees, are without power for a week (our generator is pulling the modem, router, PC, etc right now), and are probab;y going to have to take our barn down.  It's sad to see it go.  I've been busy cleaning up from the storm (it happened Friday night), so I haven't gotten much done this weekend on my tranny and car.  Hopefully this week I get a decent amount done.  We'll see how annoying it is working on things not having power to work with.  Here are just a couple pics of the damage and of my new 1st gear!  It was a last minute decision. 







« Last Edit: July 02, 2012, 08:07:43 AM by Schroeder »

Offline Schroeder

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Re: a bit of work on my 77 TA
« Reply #40 on: July 02, 2012, 10:00:57 PM »
well guys almost got the tranny together tonight.  I didn't get it done because I went in to start working on an online class assignment I have.  Here are some pics though!  As always, there are a couple questions associated with some of the pics. 








Offline Schroeder

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Re: a bit of work on my 77 TA
« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2012, 11:45:00 AM »
Well guys I'm calling the muncie done!  I think I'm more excited about getting the bench cleaned up than actually having the tranny done. 

I just ordered over $200 worth of parts and seals from Ames.  Tomorrow I want to sand blast a bunch of engine covers, driveshaft, etc.  As for now, here's the muncie.







All I know is that nothing more is being done tonight.  The girlfriend and I are going down to country concert to see Eric church and have too many beers!

Offline Schroeder

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Re: a bit of work on my 77 TA
« Reply #42 on: July 07, 2012, 07:12:01 PM »
Today was a pretty successful day I'd say.  I finally got the crank out so I can clean it.  Is there anything wrong with letting is sit in parts cleaner for a day and then high pressure washing it?

I also grinded and/or sandblasted my driveshaft (after pressing the U-joints out to make way for the new ones), alternator mount, alternator, water pump, water pump spacer plate, fuel pump, pulleys, pulley plates, harmonic balancer, and driveshaft yolk.  Tomorrow I have a lot of crap going on, but I want to start painting this stuff.  Should I go with silver or black on the driveshaft?  I'm thinking rustoleum matte black because I already have some of that here on the farm!  ^_^







a pretty sight...




how should i clean this dirt off the journals?


old rope seal.  Being replaced with graphite impregnated one.


Offline joe d

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Re: a bit of work on my 77 TA
« Reply #43 on: July 07, 2012, 10:15:32 PM »
take some close ups of the bearings, clean the crank with parts cleaner then denatured alcohol
1979 ws6 trans am (current project)
2005 mercedes s55
2001 dodge durango
1980 SE trans am (new current project)
1971 Monte Carlo
the 5 p's "perfect planning prevents poor performance"

Offline smith79

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Re: a bit of work on my 77 TA
« Reply #44 on: July 08, 2012, 07:18:33 AM »

a pretty sight...



Is there copper showing on those bearings or is that just oil sitting in them?  Hard to tell from the pictures.
1979 WS6 Trans Am