Author Topic: wiring mix up from battery??  (Read 21180 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ta78w72

  • Lifetime Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6297
  • Referrals: 0
Re: wiring mix up from battery??
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2008, 12:28:35 PM »
Actually that open slot isn't where the special fiber optic bulb/line goes.  On his car, your open slot would be the fasten seat belt light.  I think it's just an unused slot on that cluster.  They seemed to use the same housing for different years.  Notice there's no copper circuit paths going to that slot.  Therefore, a bulb couldn't light up.

The special fiber optic line goes where you have the darker color bulb on the top left.  The fiber optic bulb/line has to be inserted into one of the cluster illumination slots to allow the fiber optic line to carry the light, faint as it might be, to the ash tray whenever the lights are turned on.


Offline jjr

  • Tech Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 928
  • Fort Worth, Texas
  • Referrals: 0
    • The 301 Garage
Re: wiring mix up from battery??
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2008, 12:55:27 PM »

 Right you are...

 I have to stop and think which one we are talking about and which
is in the picture... <grin>

 I have and work on my '79, '80's and '81's and all three have differences.

 Thanks for catching that, since we are not trying to add confusion.

 It sounds like the pictures are providing a greater comfort level in the
big picture of his project, which was my hope.

 Joe
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com

Offline medicman

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 344
  • Referrals: 0
Re: wiring mix up from battery??
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2008, 01:41:19 PM »
Hey Joe,

Thanks for the support, I am doing my best and I think I am getting some stuff sorted out. There was alot of splices. I have a few questions, When I am working on the electrical, I have a battery charger set on 2amps to just keep the battery from going dead.

I after a couple of hours, I noticed that the fuse panel would loose all power and then after about 5 min or so it would have full power again. It keeps on doing this right now. Is there a relay that is shutting it down and reseting?

The fella who had the car before me wired up a electric trunk release, It is the factory button but he defiently did not use factory wiring. I have cut out the wiring under the dash due to all the splicing and guess what, I DONT HAVE CONSTANT POWER ANY MORE!!!  It has power at the key like it is suppose to. Yeah for ME!!! ;D ;D And thanks to you.

 Do you know how to wire up the trunk release button propperly?

Take alook at the pictures I have included and let me know if you know where this wire goes or is it an accessory for something else. Also the interior lights under the dash were spiced have to hell and back so I was wondering if they even belonged in this car. Can you let me know.

These three wires were running to the passengers side of the car but were spliced multiple times, I cut them back to the original harness, can you see the colour of hte wires and try to figure out what they are or how to test them.

This one is hanging under the drivers side, Any idea's??

These lights were on both sides of the car, but again splice so many times, I cut them out and dont know if I should put them back, I dont see any original wiring to plug the into.


I you need any other pics let me know and I will post them.

Thanks a bunch,
Elliott

Are you sure you want more questions after this one!!

Offline medicman

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 344
  • Referrals: 0
Re: wiring mix up from battery??
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2008, 02:44:52 PM »
I forgot to mention that someone somewhere changed the speedo cluster. It is a 1978. I learned this from a earlier post. Does this make things harder for me with that open slot in the board. Do I have to wire it up or can I leave it empty and have no astray light?

I now noticed that I have no power to the rear defrost also. It was on a constant power before and the light came on when activated. I doesnt do anything now? I did not cut any wires going to it, I just unpluged when I was pulling all the wires to see what was what. I plugged the defrost relay back in (that is beside the glovebox) again, I did not cut any wires, I promise. How do you test it?

Thanks, Elliott


Offline medicman

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 344
  • Referrals: 0
Re: wiring mix up from battery??
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2008, 03:26:05 PM »
Ok I must be getting tired. I double checked the connection for the rear defrost switch and I notice that I plugged it in backwards!! Damn it.

Right now there is no power to the fuse box. I dont really understand why but I have a feeling that the alternator might be the problem. When I touched it, it was warm, and its damn cold out today so I know its not the sun making it warm. I disonnected the battery charger that was set at 2 amps and I am going to let the car sit for 1/2 hour and then check for power again. What in the alteranator could cut power to the fuse box. I have two extra altanators but before I change it, I just want to make sure that is the problem.

Offline ta78w72

  • Lifetime Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6297
  • Referrals: 0
Re: wiring mix up from battery??
« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2008, 03:41:49 PM »
Never cut factory wires.....That's a hanging offense!!!

The first picture....power trunk release....it takes one of those orange wires....that's always on power, plus the black ground wire.  The white wire isn't part of the power trunk release.  The black wire goes from the switch to the solenoid in the trunk...that's all the in's and out's of the power trunk release.

The second picture I told you before...that's for the digital clock that you don't have.  That should just hang.  At least that's what I think that is.

The third picture is a kick panel light.  It connects on the dash frame just above the kick panels and provides illumination to the floor when you open the door.  There should be one of each side if that option was on the car.

Those kick panel lights are an add on harness to the dash harness.  They plug into the dash harness.  The best one has not only the kick panel lights, but also the glove box light...AND the connector that connects to the power trunk release terminal.

Follow that orange wire from the power trunk release and you'll see where it connects.  That harness could be replaced for about $30...AND stop cutting!!!!!!

On your power to the fuse box, you've got a bad connection somewhere...don't worry about it as it's probably tied to some splice in your old engine harness.  If it remains with the new harness, then you may have a bulkhead connection that's bad.

And yes, we like more questions....this is the Trans Am University, where there are no teachers only students.  We are all learning from each other.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 03:45:27 PM by ta78w72 »

Offline jjr

  • Tech Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 928
  • Fort Worth, Texas
  • Referrals: 0
    • The 301 Garage
Re: wiring mix up from battery??
« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2008, 03:49:10 PM »
>Hey Joe,
>
> I after a couple of hours, I noticed that the fuse panel would loose all
> power and then after about 5 min or so it would have full power again.
> It keeps on doing this right now. Is there a relay that is shutting it
> down and reseting?

  No, I'd suspect a bad connection at the battery, or a shorting cell in the
battery itself. These cars had only a very few circuits constantly energized, most
everything else with the key in "run"

  The fusebox is like a switchboard, it's a simple thing.

  I think, you are getting interrupted flow to the fusebox.

  Can you go by a auto parts chain store and have them load test your battery
 to eliminate it as the problem?   

> The fella who had the car before me wired up a electric trunk release, It is
> the factory button but he defiently did not use factory wiring. I have cut out
> the wiring under the dash due to all the splicing and guess what, I DONT HAVE
> CONSTANT POWER ANY MORE!!!  It has power at the key like it is suppose to.
> Yeah for ME!!!   And thanks to you.

  The trunk lock solenoid was one of the constantly energized circuits, sounds
like he tapped it for other circuits. (and shouldn't have)

 Do you know how to wire up the trunk release button propperly?

 Yep.



> Take alook at the pictures I have included and let me know if you know where this
> wire goes or is it an accessory for something else.

 In the first one, orange/black/white, was used for the power antenna relay, but
that's an informed guess - did the car have a power antenna?

> Also the interior lights under the dash were spiced have to hell and back so I
> was wondering if they even belonged in this car. Can you let me know.

 Courtesy lights... you'd need the Build sheet, or PHS docs to know for sure.

> These three wires were running to the passengers side of the car but were spliced
> multiple times, I cut them back to the original harness, can you see the colour of
> hte wires and try to figure out what they are or how to test them.

 The brown/orange connector on the drivers side is a radio feed for digital clock
and digital display option. It might not have been used.

> I forgot to mention that someone somewhere changed the speedo cluster. It is a 1978.
> I learned this from a earlier post. Does this make things harder for me with that
> open slot in the board. Do I have to wire it up or can I leave it empty and have no
> astray light?

  No, not harder. You can leave it empty, maybe later you'll get back to it.

> I now noticed that I have no power to the rear defrost also. It was on a constant power
> before and the light came on when activated. I doesnt do anything now?

  Because I think the guy before patched that and other circuits into a always
"hot" line, which I believe was the Deck lid line.

  Electric defrost needs to be on a "run" only line as it would be a big draw.



  How we doing?

  Joe

1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com

Offline medicman

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 344
  • Referrals: 0
Re: wiring mix up from battery??
« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2008, 04:04:40 PM »
Thanks for the info guys, but, I am at a complete stand still, I have no power in the car at all. no lights, no courtesy lights either.  The car does have crank, it cranks over. once when I stopped cranking the volt guage registered then went to 0 volts again. I have unpluged the battery and am not interested in looking at it againg tonight.

I am discouraged with the no power thing going on.

Offline ta78w72

  • Lifetime Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6297
  • Referrals: 0
Re: wiring mix up from battery??
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2008, 04:41:45 PM »
That white wire is switched ground.  By that I mean when a switch is activated it grounds the white wire.  In the kick panel light picture you see an orange wire (always hot) and a white wire (switched ground).  When a door is opened, the switch in the jab is activated and the white wire is grounded causing the dome light to illuminate and the kick panel lights to illuminate (if so installed).

Offline medicman

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 344
  • Referrals: 0
Re: wiring mix up from battery??
« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2008, 04:42:01 PM »
the car does not have power antenna,


ta78w72,  I promise I never harmed or cut one factory wire so you can put away the noose (lol). I just clipped all the non factory wires that were  branching off the original wires.

Hey Joe,

A quote from  ta78w72  "The first picture....power trunk release....it takes one of those orange wires....that's always on power, plus the black ground wire.  The white wire isn't part of the power trunk release.  The black wire goes from the switch to the solenoid in the trunk...that's all the in's and out's of the power trunk release."

Joe you seem to think that the orange, black and white are for the power antenna, If this is the case and I do not have a power antenna, I could just tape them up out of the way?

How could I test them to see if they are for the power lid release.

I must mention that the fella before me added the power lid release. The car apparently never came with this option.

As fustrated as I am with the car right now, I just cannot let my mind think of anything else, I so want to get all this electrical fixed. I know if you guys were here, it probally would be done within 1 hour. I have spent all day and it seems like I fix one problem and get two more problems for my reward.

I am sure with the constant help you guy are giving me I will get it fixed.

Like I said if you need pictures of anything, let me know. Maybe the trunk release wiring in the trunk that the other fella did?

Elliott

Offline jjr

  • Tech Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 928
  • Fort Worth, Texas
  • Referrals: 0
    • The 301 Garage
Re: wiring mix up from battery??
« Reply #40 on: October 02, 2008, 04:42:36 PM »
 The battery feeds the fusebox.

 Power comes through the bulkhead connector
at cavity CY and then the fusebox and potentially
all circuits could be powered. (key in "run")

 Here's the engine harness diagram:



 and the detail on the connector on the firewall:



 You should be able to verify that the wire going to CY
has power... either a test light or a voltmeter.

 Joe
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com

Offline ta78w72

  • Lifetime Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6297
  • Referrals: 0
Re: wiring mix up from battery??
« Reply #41 on: October 02, 2008, 04:48:43 PM »
That orange wire is for the kick panel lights, the glove box lights and the power trunk release.  I've explained the white wire above.  None of those wires have anything to do with a power antenna.

The power antenna would have a another lead in the black radio connector which causes the antenna to deploy when the radio is turned on.  There is also a relay somewhere around the glove box on the back side of the dash that controls the down operation.  The down operation needs a always hot lead because people generally don't turn the radio off....they turn the key off, thereby cutting power to the radio.  In order for the antenna to come back down....it needs always on power.

I put away the rope...but I've got my eye on you! ;D ;D ;D

Joe is an amazing source for diagrams for you!!!  Those should help a lot.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 04:57:41 PM by ta78w72 »

Offline jjr

  • Tech Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 928
  • Fort Worth, Texas
  • Referrals: 0
    • The 301 Garage
Re: wiring mix up from battery??
« Reply #42 on: October 02, 2008, 04:57:00 PM »

 Well, that orange wire "could" be the Deck release circuit feed
or lights.

 Since you've got a serious case of hacked up, I first searched
the wiring diagram for something in that area that used the
orange/black/white wire colors, which would have possibly
been power antenna.

 Do you have a voltmeter?  a test light?

 Maybe we should just see what's hot (key off) and tape them
off for now.

 Joe
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com

Offline medicman

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 344
  • Referrals: 0
Re: wiring mix up from battery??
« Reply #43 on: October 02, 2008, 05:21:59 PM »

ta78w72, Thanks for the advice, you and Joe are my teachers, please be patient with me, I was never a good student.

I have both, a volt meter and a  test light. Tell me what to test and i will be on it rght away.

I just guess that will mean date night with the wife will have to wait!!

Elliott

Offline ta78w72

  • Lifetime Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6297
  • Referrals: 0
Re: wiring mix up from battery??
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2008, 06:52:50 PM »
I wouldn't give up date night with my wife to work on my car!!!!  Take your wife somewhere nice!  The car will be there when you get home.