Author Topic: Voltage problem .. still  (Read 11186 times)

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Offline Rick

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Voltage problem .. still
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2007, 01:25:50 AM »
Quote from: "milly"
He is going to watch the Patriots beat the Colts in the AFC title game tonight.  :wink:  :P


You got it half right -- Colts win 38-34, but you know that by now.

I burned up half a lifetime worth of adrenaline during that game -- feel like I ran every play with the players... :shock:

Rick ---> who has never seen 60,000 people so excited...

Offline bad76

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Voltage problem .. still
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2007, 11:09:00 AM »
The negative cable should attatch to the front frame and then you should run a ground strap from the block to the frame. If your wiring is that I messed up then I would buy a Painless kit. The Painless kit is very easy to install and it will also upgrade your fuse block. I am an electrician so I always find wiring easy. Good luck.

Offline rkellerjr

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Voltage problem .. still
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2007, 12:41:09 PM »
I thought I'd give everyone a little laugh.  :)  I drove the TA to work today as I have a meeting and will be late getting out of work.  This allows my wife to have a car to get home on time.  We car pool most days.  I use the TA maybe once every week to two weeks for work.  Well, I get here and guess what?  :?  The battery is dead!!   :shock:  :shock:

So much for my wiring job last weekend!!  :evil:  Back to the drawing board with ya'll's suggested ways of finding the problem.
Rich

Offline Eagle 1

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Voltage problem .. still
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2007, 12:50:39 PM »
Heres something else to check.  With the battery fully charged, unhook the negative cable.    Make sure everything is off including the lights, radio, ignition switch etc.
Then slowly touch the negative cable back to battery and look for a spark.  (you may have to do this in the dark)  If you get any kind of spark that means you have a dead short somewhere.  Maybe in the wiring harness or something.
" He done good didnt he Fred?"
"I'm in pursuit of a black Trans Am. He's all mine so stay outta the way."

Offline RENOVATIONS

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Voltage problem .. still
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2007, 01:06:19 PM »
I think I asked you back on TAC but have you checked the fusible links,Rich?

BTW, I know diddly about electricity, but I had similar problem with my T/A years ago and a link was the issue :roll:
Jeff

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Offline Amtrak

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Voltage problem .. still
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2007, 10:39:59 PM »
Hey just wanted to follow up on your alt wiring.   the flat plug on the alt has two wires coming out of it the brown wire goes to the ignition switch and the white wire does tie back in with the heavy wire that is bolted to the alt.. This is called the sense wire it is used by the voltage regulator to controll the output voltage from the alternator....... This should answer all your alternator problems good luck and may the force be with you......

Offline jjr

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Sparks and zips
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2007, 03:04:21 AM »
Quote
Then slowly touch the negative cable back to battery and look for a spark. (you may have to do this in the dark) If you get any kind of spark that means you have a dead short somewhere. Maybe in the wiring harness or something.


 What... ? <grin>

 Ok, where on earth did you hear that?

 Seriously, what's needed is a way to measure current flow.

 The static charge on the body or even the capacitor in the ignition system could store enough to give you a cute little zip.

 Joe
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
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1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
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Offline bad76

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Voltage problem .. still
« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2007, 10:34:13 AM »
If you want to check current draw then put a clamp on style amp probe on the positive cable. If you are drawing current then pull your fuses one at a time untill you losse the draw and that will at least point you in the right direction.

Offline Eagle 1

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Re: Sparks and zips
« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2007, 12:31:58 PM »
Quote from: "jjr"
Quote
Then slowly touch the negative cable back to battery and look for a spark. (you may have to do this in the dark) If you get any kind of spark that means you have a dead short somewhere. Maybe in the wiring harness or something.


 What... ? <grin>

 Ok, where on earth did you hear that?

 Seriously, what's needed is a way to measure current flow.

 The static charge on the body or even the capacitor in the ignition system could store enough to give you a cute little zip.

 Joe


Its shade tree stuff that your not going to find in any book but it works.
I have been a mechanic for over 25 years now, so I really dont know where I first heard about it.
The capacitor in the distributor is for radio noise suppression and nothing else.  Unless its shorted out, your not going to get any kind of spark.
Im not even going to touch the static charge thing. :roll:
" He done good didnt he Fred?"
"I'm in pursuit of a black Trans Am. He's all mine so stay outta the way."

Offline jjr

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Eagle 1
« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2007, 09:21:07 PM »
Eagle 1,

 In re-reading the thread and my own input, I want to
make sure you don't think I was giving you a hard
time. If so, I apologize.

 As I read your suggestion I couldn't initially see
where it would identify a problem (circuit). As I
re-read it, I now see what you where saying...
 Not any specific circuit - just that one somewhere
could be a short.

 So Yes, I would agree an unknown short to ground would
yield a spark - A fairly noticeable one too probably.

 I had never ever heard that trick, and I too have a
few years of wrenching - just not as a full time job
though. In High School, I took 4 years of Auto Mechanics,
graduating in 1975.

 Then in 1980, I got a B.S. in Electrical Engineering and
that too never became a full time day job.(Long Story)

 When I picture electrical troubleshooting I tend to
get a tad overly analytical.

 Connecting the negative battery cable closes any and
all active circuits on the car. Even if you've turned
off switched circuits there are still several that are
always hot like say the clock.

 As soon as you close any circuit by manually making
the contact you can have a slight spark. It would
stand to reason that the greater the flow through a
specific circuit the larger the potential spark.

 If you metered the connection you would have way more
info as to how much juice is getting loose. That was
where I was going.

 As far as the capacitor, yes it's for noise suppression,
but any capacitor can in fact hold a charge, granted
not for very long usually. Any wire or metal that cuts
a magnetic field will induce/conduct some electron flow.

 Since a car is a collection a large metal sheets
insulated by 4 rubber tires any field or fields nearby
can and do induce a slight charge. Then closing the
battery cable closes the isolated loop and the charges
equalize (a spark).

 Ok, so that's the short story and maybe I'm a ding-ding,
but that's what I was thinking - not being critical
of your tried and true wisdom.

 Joe R
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com

Offline Rick

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Re: Eagle 1
« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2007, 09:41:14 PM »
Quote from: "jjr"
Then in 1980, I got a B.S. in Electrical Engineering and
that too never became a full time day job.(Long Story)


Hey -- me too!  Mine was a full-time job, then another full-time job, and finally it turned into MORE than a full-time job so that's when I took a line from the old song and said "take this job and shove it!".

The donkey might be dumb, but if you keep loading stuff onto it sooner or later it will lay down... :evil:  8)  :lol:

Offline fb_rider

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Voltage problem .. still
« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2007, 10:02:37 PM »
What I was always told is kind of a combination of the two.  Disconnect your battery terminal (I don't think it really matters which one), and put an amp meter in series between the battery and the cable end.  If you have any draw at all, pull out fuses until it goes away.  Kind of like the clamp-on meter idea, but you don't need a clamp-on meter.
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Offline Joker (§ir£Ğragon)

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Voltage problem .. still
« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2007, 10:10:29 PM »
Yeah, that's a draw test. Anything over .01 amps (I think that's the correct number) is too much. The clock and maybe radio memory will pull that much. The neg/ batt cable test is the same idea. It's just the way they don't tell you about in school. :lol: The slight draw from those same things probably won't cause enough of a draw to create a noticable spark. If you can light your cigarette off of it you're in trouble. :lol:
Larry


Offline Eagle 1

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Voltage problem .. still
« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2007, 10:15:54 PM »
No problem Joe.
Rich mentioned back on the first page that he didnt know much about this so I was just giving him an easy way to check it with out going into much detail.
Just to let you know, I asked a couple of buddies from my shop and they agreed the method I described is the easiest way to check for a dead short; and your right you will get a fairly noticeable spark.
I agree the clock is the only circuit in the car that will be drawing a small amount of current and I had already thought about that, but my clock works and I dont get a spark when I hook up my negative.  
Its good to have people on here like you who specialize in specific fields.

Mean while back to Rich's problem.  If your wiring harness it all chopped up I would recommend you consider replacing it.  It is only going to lead to problems in the long run.  I have seen cars with shorted wiring catch fire.
" He done good didnt he Fred?"
"I'm in pursuit of a black Trans Am. He's all mine so stay outta the way."

Offline milly

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Voltage problem .. still
« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2007, 01:54:13 AM »
Larry regarding the acceptible draw, on newer cars and trucks 0.5 amps is considered ok because of all the electronic jumk they add on to cars today. On a basic older car (no cumputers) the .01 you posted MIGHT be ok. It's really hard to day depending on the options that the car has or was added onto.  :?
John
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