Author Topic: Passenger door electrical issues  (Read 3074 times)

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Offline 10th TA

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Re: Passenger door electrical issues
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2011, 03:30:00 PM »
Yes I do have 12 volts at each switch.
Do all of the wires connect through 1 multi pin plug behind the kick panel or are there multiple plugs to check? I'm thinking that if I have voltage, then the connection should be good behind the kick panel.

Offline ta78w72

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Re: Passenger door electrical issues
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2011, 06:47:54 PM »
There are connectors under the dash, but the best bet is to measure for voltage the actuators.  Then work your way back.

Offline kc79ta

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Re: Passenger door electrical issues
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2011, 07:00:31 PM »
There are 2 for the door locks, and 1 for the power windows. See first pic below. This is what comes behind the kick panel from the door. The one orange with black strip is for the locks and also the large 4 wire. I take it the orange is where you got the 12v reading, and the other 4 wire is the one that runs door to door. You could check for continuity between the door to door harness (blue on right door to blue on left door, and so on). I would do this before I removed the panels. If you have voltage to the switches ,continuity between the doors, and the ground is good. You have 1 or 2 bad switches.

Might the wires that came off the plug have not been making a good conection?

Drivers door harness behind kick panel.



At the switch. Note the 2 black wires for the ground. they should be screwed into the door.

Keith

Offline 79TeeTop

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Re: Passenger door electrical issues
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2011, 12:35:23 AM »
So I have a ?

If my passenger side power window is still getting volts and I ran a new ground wires from one of the motor mount bolts into the car and attached it under the dash but the window motor is still not working what else might I try to get the pass side power window motor working?

Offline ta78w72

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Re: Passenger door electrical issues
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2011, 07:17:08 AM »
Could have a dead motor.  You have 12 volts at the window motor connector?  Did you take the window out and clean the tracks and everything else?

Offline 79TeeTop

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Re: Passenger door electrical issues
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2011, 10:17:46 AM »
I've got 12 volts but I have not cleaned the tracks out....might try that this weekend.  I have tomorrow off and my boys are busy with their cousin and Grandma tomorrow so that should give me several hours.

I had also thought about a dead motor and started wondering if I should try to attach it to the other side?

Down side to that plan is I'd have to remove the driver's side door panel again.

Offline 10th TA

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Re: Passenger door electrical issues
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2011, 12:26:39 PM »
I made some progress last night. It appears that the wiring connections in the flat molded plug are bad. A previous owner has apparently been inside the connector, some of the female pin receivers are missing and solder was added to the wiring to make a connection which is not doing the job. Also looks like one bad switch.

Thanks for all the help guys. This is a cool site!

Does anyone have a source for 2 of the wiring connectors to mate with the switches?

Offline kc79ta

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Re: Passenger door electrical issues
« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2011, 12:48:42 PM »
I have seen the whole harnesses listed on ebay. Never just the plugs, but maybe someone here has.
Keith

Offline ta78w72

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Re: Passenger door electrical issues
« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2011, 03:30:41 PM »
Those short pieces come up on ebay every now and then.  I'm referring to the connector that attaches to the motor and runs through the door and connects to the harness under the kickpanel.

Offline Grand73Am

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Re: Passenger door electrical issues
« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2011, 10:40:07 PM »
I just got through doing some work on my power door locks. The power lock actuators in one of my 79's would try to work, but weren't strong enough to move the lock knobs. They would click, but that's about it. So, I decided to investigate inside the driver side door today. I lubricated the door latch with PB Blaster and then some White Lithium spray and moved the lock mechanism up and down until it moved as freely as possible. That actuator was then able to unlock it, but still not strong enough to lock it or vice versa, I don't remember now. But it only worked one way  :) . So, I removed the original actuator. It seemed to work fine when not connected to the latch. But, I have a couple of spare used actuators, so I decided to try a different actuator. I tested it first, and it worked, but didn't seem any better than the one I was removing. I went ahead and gave it a try. I had removed the original actuator by removing the rivets. I had already decided to bolt the actuator back on with 1/4" size bolts and nuts. I removed the actuator bracket from the actuator I was going to use and welded the nuts to the bracket. Reattached the bracket to the actuator and bolted it to the door. Hooked it all back up and the actuator works strong.
And this is where I have a theory. I'm not sure it's just the replacement actuator that made the difference. I believe that by bolting the actuator in, it created a better ground for the actuator than the aluminum rivets do. The sure test would have been to bolt the original actuator back in to see if it works strong too, but I didn't think about this until I had it all back together and I don't want to take it apart again. I still need to fix my passenger door power lock too, so I will put my theory to the test with the original actuator on that door. If that goes well, I'm thinking that replacing the aluminum rivets with bolts could help slow power windows too.
Of course, using bolts for the actuators doesn't look original, since the bolt heads are seen. Later I will probably get some button head bolts for a smoother look.
Steve F.

Offline ta78w72

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Re: Passenger door electrical issues
« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2011, 12:08:53 PM »
I don't believe those actuators are grounded through the rivets.  The ground is on the drivers door.  And, I would advise against drilling out the rivets.  The actuators are bolted to the bracket.  The bracket is riveted to the door.  So, it's possible to change the actuator by unbolting it from the bracket without disturbing the rivets.  Although it might be easier to drill out the rivets.

In your case, probably disconnecting the harness from the actuator probably improved the connection and that's what made the difference.

I could be wrong about the ground because I haven't bench tested that circuit.  The schematic indicates a ground wire that runs into the actuator connector.  I suspect the actuator gets ground from that wire which connects to the drivers side door.  If the actuators were grounded to the door, there would be no reason to have a ground wire.  It would be like the power window circuit.

Both the power window and door lock circuits are crappy.  The power trunk release works pretty good though but it doesn't get the load that the other two circuits get.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 12:11:29 PM by ta78w72 »

Offline Grand73Am

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Re: Passenger door electrical issues
« Reply #41 on: April 24, 2011, 08:16:04 PM »
I looked at the door lock wiring diagram and it looks like there's a ground wire off of the driver side switch connector. So it appears you're correct ta78w72...the actuator bracket doesn't provide the ground, so my bolting the bracket to the door didn't really make the difference.

I replaced my passenger side lock actuator today. I tested the original actuator first by removing the rivets and bolting it back to the door, and it behaved no differently..it still didn't work, so that verified that bolting the bracket made no difference. So, I lubricated the door latch well and tried the original actuator again, and it behaved like my original driver side actuator did before I changed it. It only worked to open the lock and could not lock it. Then I installed my replacement actuator, and it works strong both ways. So, in my case the problem was latches that needed a good lubrication and actuators that needed to be replaced. Luckily I had bought the extra used actuators from eBay for cheap about 4 years ago, and they actually turned out to be good  :) . So, that saved alot compared to new ones. It's nice to have them working well.

Like you said, you could remove the actuator from the bracket from inside the door by unscrewing the 4 screws and leave the bracket attached to the door with the rivets. It's a little cramped inside the door to do that though. So I still like my nuts and bolts conversion, since it makes it really easy to remove and install actuator and bracket together  :) .   
Steve F.

Offline ta78w72

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Re: Passenger door electrical issues
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2011, 11:41:45 AM »
I'm not convinced I'm right about the grounding of the actuator.  I need to bench test it.  I hate to post inaccurate information.  I'm not in a position to do any bench testing since my house is being remodeled.   The reason I want to do this is, if the actuator does indeed need to be grounded, we need to run a ground wire from the actuator bracket to the power window motor fastener and another wire from one of the power window fasteners through the boot to a suitable ground place in the cabin.

The grounds on these cars can be subtle.  For example, the power window relay is grounded via the fastener to the steering column bracket.  It took me a while to figure this out when I was testing a relay.  So, that's causing me to pause about my assertion on the actuator ground.

On the rivet issue, yeah, it's really tight and might be easier to simply remove the rivets.  I plan on trying to save the rivets and as a last resort remove them.  When I get my Y88 back, the power windows and power door locks is at the top of my list.  I'm going to replace the actuators rather than screw around with the old ones.

I also found a set of brand new door glass aligning blocks on ebay for $17.  I've been wanting a set of these for years.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 11:45:35 AM by ta78w72 »

Offline Grand73Am

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Re: Passenger door electrical issues
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2011, 01:27:29 PM »
Nice find on those door glass blocks. I have a couple of 73-75 a-bodys and I was lucky enough to find some blocks for those cars on eBay a while back.

As for the grounding of the actuators, I do know that the passenger side actuator did not have to be grounded to the door to work, because after our discussion here, I checked for that. I tested it in my hand, free from the door, and it worked without being grounded to the door.

When I did the driver side door earlier, I just assumed the actuator bracket needed to be grounded, so I was doing my testing of my spare actuators by grounding them against the door. From what I remember, I didn't think they worked when I didn't rub the bracket against the driver door metal hard enough to get a good ground. So, that's why I was thinking they needed grounding. If I'd known that there would be doubt about whether the driver side actuator needs to ground on the door, I would have paid more attention at that time. At this point, I am wondering if maybe the driver's side actuator must be grounded to pass the ground over to the passenger side. But, after looking at the wiring diagram in my 79 Fisher Body manual, a ground wire appears to come off of the driver side pdl switch and would be screwed to the door somewhere. So, if the switch is wired like in the book, it wouldn't seem necessary to ground the actuator.

As for the rivets, if you ever removed them, and wanted to replace them with rivets, you know that you can still get new ones at a body and paint supply store or other place where auto fasteners are sold.
Steve F.

Offline ta78w72

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Re: Passenger door electrical issues
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2011, 01:41:47 PM »
That ground wire in the connector is what made me believe the actuator didn't ground to the door.  If you tested an actuator without it being grounded other than by the connector, and it worked, then that actuator doesn't get it's ground from the door.