Author Topic: 4 Relay power window  (Read 29633 times)

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Offline lee01

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4 Relay power window
« on: June 18, 2012, 03:23:02 PM »
Hi to all, in 2008 I did with help of many members make a 4 relay system for the weak GM system, and that work pretty well.
The diagram is still on the forum. 
At that time I had thaught about doing a somewhat plug and play relay kit that I could sell for those who would take the easy way :) but I sold my T/A and got into other projects.
Since then I received many email about my system and if there there were ever a ''kit'' offered.

Now i'm more settle and will have time this summer/winter and i'm am testing the water if there would be some member interested in having a kit made.

I would probably provide a complet kit with with relay, wiring and instruction.

Right now I haven't research price or anything like that, I guess price and quality would be the priority.

Let know your thaugh and i'll go from there.

Nick
lee01
Current project:
90 Mustang GT 5.0
10 STI Sportech
Last T/A's
1979 x 4

Offline blacksheep1

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Re: 4 Relay power window
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2012, 09:24:28 PM »
Yes, Yes and YES!!! I'll be the first in line to buy your kit. I have already bought the relays suggested but have not done anything so I would gladly resell the relays and purchase your kit.
Robin Bailer

Offline medicman

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Re: 4 Relay power window
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2012, 09:12:45 PM »
I'm the guy who bought lee 01 t/a. I've been restoring it since 08 and still going at it. I kept the relay set up that came with the car and they do work great. Windows go up and down fast. I'm hoping to finish my car by next year. It's been a complete resto.

Offline Angelo

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Re: 4 Relay power window
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2012, 03:55:18 PM »
I've been thinking about the 4 relay setup with the existing relay, it seems redundant to keep the old/original relay once you wire in these 4 new relays.



Here's my modification, which eliminates the old power window relay completely making the switches work directly from the fuse box ignition feed.



Make sure the red with black wire and the not-used pigtail on your new relays are properly covered to prevent from possibly grounding. You should be able to do this modification without cutting the old relay harness by using blade connectors on a short wire. Just don't forget to cover the exposed red with black wire terminal remaining on the harness.

My only other modification is to include a 30amp fuse to your hot wire that runs from the battery to your 4 new relays.

Feedback/comments please!

81' ex-Turbo Trans Am - Resto-mod

Offline OrangeCrush79

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Re: 4 Relay power window
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2012, 10:20:33 AM »
Hi,
    I too am in the process of trying to get my power windows to work right. Since there isn't a plug and play kit yet available to accomplish this, I will try to follow the schematics that are supplied here. It would be a lot easier to see actual photographs as to how to "create" this relay system, where to attach it to and also photos of how you do the wiring. It looks great on paper, but I need to see how it all goes together inside the car.
    Thanks for supplying the updated schematic to this system.       OrangeCrush79

Offline Angelo

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Re: 4 Relay power window
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2012, 10:42:42 AM »
Check out these threads:

www.78ta.com/HTAF/index.php?topic=38033
www.78ta.com/HTAF/index.php?topic=8769

I'm putting mine in the same place as "Eagle 1" did, under the center console map pocket. I'm replacing the map pocket with Randy's center console gauge pod as well.

81' ex-Turbo Trans Am - Resto-mod

Offline blacksheep1

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Re: 4 Relay power window
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2012, 09:48:29 PM »
Hey Lee, what do you think? Are you going to start make these plug and play units?

Offline TAKID455

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Re: 4 Relay power window
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2012, 09:30:54 AM »
Really not hard to do. Being most of it is custom to the car, not sure how a suitable 'package' kit would work out. Just get some relays, terminals and cut & crimp away.  I usually place my relays under the console.
2nd Gen Engineering
Specializing in Suspension and Driveline Performance Engineering
Custom/ Racing/ Restorations

Offline Angelo

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Re: 4 Relay power window
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2012, 10:02:42 AM »
I agree with TAKID455, though someone could put together a "requires assembly" kit, it would essentially contain some 12 and 14 gauge wire, an inline 30A fuse and 4 bosch style relays with pigtails, preferably lockable pigtails. Here's a link to the relays and pigtails I got this summer: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-PACK-30-40-AMP-RELAY-HARNESS-SPDT-12V-BOSCH-STYLE-S-SHIPS-FREE-FAST-FROM-USA-/390461017170?pt=US_Relays_Sensors&hash=item5ae94a4c52&vxp=mtr Note the pigtails lock together, keeps things nice and tidy.

If you have money to spend, Painless sells a power window and door lock kit for 70-81 firebird/camaro #30715 that includes 4 relays: 30715 Manual, available at Summit Racing

But as TAKID455 said, everything is based on what you want to do. For example, some folks mounted their relays under the glove box, others under the center console. An already assembled kit would make that decision for you. Though my relays will be under the center console, there could be a perfectly good reason not to put them there, like if you had a manual transmission maybe. I'm also adding a fuse panel to my car in case I want to add additional accessories like a CB or an amp. I got a 4 fuse block (each fuse can handle up to 30 amps), 10 gauge wire to run from the new fuse box to the battery, and a battery side post extender to attach my 10 gauge wire to the positive battery terminal. Once you dig into it, you'll most likely come up with your own preference to wire everything.
81' ex-Turbo Trans Am - Resto-mod

Offline lee01

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Re: 4 Relay power window
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2012, 02:46:48 PM »
I haven't had time yet guys :( 
Life is busier then ever. Soccer coach, karate kid too lol, 71 Duster restoration, work work!

But once I get into it, I try to figure out something simple with most stuff included like relays, wiring, fuse, pigtail.

The relay placement will be a personal preference.
But most have a console and its easy to take out and lot of room to put the relay, easy to work so....I will see, winter is comming quickly and I will have more time during that season.   
Current project:
90 Mustang GT 5.0
10 STI Sportech
Last T/A's
1979 x 4

Offline H8Rain

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Re: 4 Relay power window
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2012, 04:34:20 PM »
Hi all.   

Per the post above, has anyone confirmed that it is ok to remove the existing (original) relay from the mix, or does it really not make any difference?  Unless there is a good reason to remove it I'd rather skip an un-necessary step. 

Also, I have read that the existing\original wiring going from the switch to the motors (which would now be going from the new relays to the motors) should be upgraded to a heavier gauge (since there is much more current running through this wire and driving the windows).  Is that necessary or can the original wiring handle the new load ok?

And one more question (please).  What is the preferred way to splice the wires?  For example, the new power wire that comes directly from the battery to the new relays, I'll need to split that to each of the 4 new relays, correct?  How do you recommend I make those splices..... solder or barrel crimps or something other?

Thanks so much!

Offline Angelo

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Re: 4 Relay power window
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2012, 05:03:55 PM »
If you add 4 new relays as designed above, that original older relay is redundant. My opinion leaving it would not harm anything, but an electrician would tell you to yank it out because someday if you do have a problem it could be a cause, where otherwise it would not.

The 14 gauge wire from your new relays to each power window motor should be sufficient. There's a formula printed on most boxes of wire what gauge is appropriate for what amperage and distance. The distance from your new relays to your motors will be less than 4 feet, so it should not be an issue. The only exception is if the wiring itself has been damaged in anyway, then you should replace it. Here are some sites with charts so you can get an idea what's happening: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-uhH9GJZd4ma/learn/learningcenter/car/cable_gauge_chart.html and http://www.rallylights.com/hella/SensibleWiring.aspx Basically the longer the distance of the wire then the thicker the wire needs to be to handle the amperage.

For reference, I could not get a definite answer but I believe each power window motor pulls between 12-18 amps.

The new wire feeding the relays should be 10 gauge in my opinion, though looking at the chart I have here as long as the run is under 4' then 12 gauge should work (12 gauge is what the factory used)  If you run 12 gauge to the relays though, you could introduce the same problem the factory wiring had when both windows are rolling up/down at the same time, where they then go slower competing for the amperage.

Technically the line coming from the battery was a generalization, you should (though most don't do this) wire the lead to the same place where the factory wires the other wiring to as well, and that is determined by which motor is in your car. I can only speak for a Pontiac motor, in that case the new wire should be added to the back of the alternator using a ring connector. You should also include a fusible link 9" long between your new run to this connection at the alternator, the fusible link is important, again it's what the factory designed. Everything else should be soldered with wire heat shrink, or crimp-able heat shrink butt connectors. I also added insulated spade connectors between the window wiring and relays, that way I can take out the center console with the relays and switches just by unplugging those spade connectors. You can knock yourself out with creativity there. Also, this is just my opinion, you could still wire the window relay directly to the battery post, I see guys who add amps and other stereo equipment do that all the time. Just remember that you need a fuse somewhere in there, otherwise things could get damaged.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 10:55:18 AM by angelo »
81' ex-Turbo Trans Am - Resto-mod

Offline Grand73Am

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Re: 4 Relay power window
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2012, 12:29:28 AM »
The original relay is not a relay in the usual sense of the purpose of a relay. It only makes it so you have to turn the ignition key on for the windows to work. If you remove the relay and connect the switch wire to a constant power source, the windows work without the key. I bypassed my bad original relay so I can operate the windows without needing to turn the ignition switch on, and been doing so for 6 years and counting. Cars from the 60's and older were like that, and I prefer it that way  :) .
Steve F.

Offline Angelo

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Re: 4 Relay power window
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2012, 09:51:05 AM »
All depends which wire you replace the old relay with. If you wire the switching power to the new relays from a pink wire under the dash (see my version of the diagram), then the new relays will only work when the key is in the ignition/start mode. They will not work when in the off/acc position since no power will be at the switches to activate the relays.

If you wire the switching power to the red wire from the old relay, or an orange wire under the dash, or wire it directly to the battery, then yes you can roll the windows up/down even without the key in the ignition. I would not wire your car this way if concerned about security, all one would need to do is use a coat hanger under your window to press the power window button to get into the car.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 09:53:36 AM by angelo »
81' ex-Turbo Trans Am - Resto-mod

Offline H8Rain

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Re: 4 Relay power window
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2012, 09:59:05 AM »
Thanks for the information.    So could I set up the power to the new relays using a fused distribution block, like you might get from a stereo shop if you were running multiple amps?   

Something like this......