Author Topic: Need work! ( 1977-1979 TA owners )  (Read 11081 times)

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Offline osso12

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Re: Need work! ( 1977-1979 TA owners )
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2012, 04:26:07 PM »
Homer.. just curious.. You mention $2,500 wont cover the cost of materials...
You have been doing Paint and body work since you were 18. I have been tearing down cars since I was 16... as seen by my pics....
I have NOT been painting cars since I was 16 however. I am now 48.... Evidently materials are WAY higher in lets say florida than Texas... which is more reason to let me help you floridians out. If you dont mind, If I gave you $2,500 of my own money for Materials... what materials would that buy me to get started? Could you give me a professional break down on this. I trust your judgement here.

Offline osso12

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Re: Need work! ( 1977-1979 TA owners )
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2012, 04:43:15 PM »
sounds like at the end of the day if homers car was a client it would be about a $60k restoration, i know Thorntons gets $100k and you supply the car
Well.. Thats why I am here. I am fairly confident while my quality might not be a $60k restoration.. we can all agree with that.... BUT... I ask you this.. Just by the pics I have shown... This was just done in my driveway! If I had a building, do you not think I could do just a "little" bit better than BAB?
You be the judge in all fairness.... Even if you gave me $15k up front like many have done with Bob the bandit.. and EVEN if I had to find you a car that you are comfortable in working with.. Do you think what you would get back would be ANYWHERE near the car that BOB sent flounder?  And this is just ME doing all the labor! No employees! Just ME and materials and something over my head to work out of. None of the above photos that I have posted where meant to be show quality or for ME to win any car show. Could I win a local car show? Debatable! But you cannot argue that I take pride in what I can accomplish on my own, with little to nothing ( a hot driveway in 100 degree heat) to work with. I am not promising a $60k restoration for $2,500. No way! But I WILL promise that you will be happy with what I turn out, or I am NOT happy until you are happy. Unlike BAB... Once we get started I will post DAILY pics in THIS thread... of any progress made. DAILY. You will see the car that is being worked on. If you allow me to purchase a car on your behalf (whole different story) you and only you will hold the title. NOT me. ITS YOUR CAR. You pick the car, buy the car... or Ill buy it on your behalf the one YOU Decide on. The title will be sent to you. Once we agree on the work to be performed and as long as I can manage to get my $1,000 down and $500 a month plus utilities building taken care of (I have to sign a YEAR lease) so I have to have enough work ahead or enough deposits to cover the building.. That is the ONLY reason I ask for the $1,250 up front is to ensure you have a building for us to work on your car. I could do it in my driveway..
But... I dont want to work out of my drive way......Just a little help and trust goes a long way. BOB the bandit has SHOWN what he can do and what he DOES now. As far as his quality that he did 8 years ago? I honestly do not know. I Do now that now he is taking in $16k for cars...... and giving you back a $6k to $7k car depending on how much he spent out of pocket for interior pieces etc. Team, help ME and FLOUNDER put this BAB crap behind us. I do NOT want to be another BAB! We can do this I know. But it takes your help and trust. I don't want your MONEY as much as I want your trust and business FIRST.

Offline HOMER

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Re: Need work! ( 1977-1979 TA owners )
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2012, 04:48:34 PM »
for starters a gallon of epoxy primer + hardner =150 ish
ncp 275 surfacer/primer 350 ish gallon with hardner
average cost of gallon of dbc =800-1000 depends on color
dt 870 reducer arpund 80 a gallon
dc 4000 clear  around 300 a gallon with hardner

sand paper ,masking tape, masking paper  polish
and dont forget to factor electric and other utilities

not quite 2500 but you get the idea , not much room for profit ,and like someone else said , theres always the hidden damage to account for .
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Offline HOMER

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Re: Need work! ( 1977-1979 TA owners )
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2012, 05:00:04 PM »
and yes i been painting since i was 18   i grew up in a body shop, im ase certified painter , ppg certified for deltron paint (dbc) ppg certified for envirobase paint also
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Offline osso12

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Re: Need work! ( 1977-1979 TA owners )
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2012, 05:04:02 PM »
for starters a gallon of epoxy primer + hardner =150 ish
ncp 275 surfacer/primer 350 ish gallon with hardner
average cost of gallon of dbc =800-1000 depends on color
dt 870 reducer arpund 80 a gallon
dc 4000 clear  around 300 a gallon with hardner

sand paper ,masking tape, masking paper  polish
and dont forget to factor electric and other utilities

not quite 2500 but you get the idea , not much room for profit ,and like someone else said , theres always the hidden damage to account for .
Thanks Bro! That came out to $17 k... Paper is $300 give or take?
Again.. you can see not much profit. What would I do with the $500? Pay the Rent on the building....
I do NOT expect to make any profit other than maybe help with some of my bills.. Any real profit the first TWO years will be best put into the business for better tools, lifts, etc..... From 2 years forward if we get any business we can work on hiring a employee or two. The first two years i will work alone and possibly a buddy or two pitch in here and there IF they want to. Again, I am working for peanuts as you proved. The goal here? Not to get rich but put BAB out of business with what limited resources we can.

Offline HOMER

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Re: Need work! ( 1977-1979 TA owners )
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2012, 05:12:27 PM »
and your right gotta start somewhere i used to do them alot cheaper than i do now, got my name out there more business ,then got to charge more, i have taken many losses on jobs i under estimated, you learn as you go
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Offline joe d

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Re: Need work! ( 1977-1979 TA owners )
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2012, 05:34:37 PM »
i agree whole heartedly that you can paint and well enough to please most customers and of course without dropping $2500 on materials as we all know if you agree to paint a car for $2500 it will not have $1300 worth of dbc  but maybe $300 worth of nason select or along those lines. i would love to see some of your work Homer if you have a link or website, you as well osso. by the way, what about a booth, here in Pinellas county thye will not issue any new booths, my guy is sharing a shop with a butcher because he needs the booth, i offered to open a better shop but they will not allow a new booth so need an existing
1979 ws6 trans am (current project)
2005 mercedes s55
2001 dodge durango
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Offline osso12

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Re: Need work! ( 1977-1979 TA owners )
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2012, 05:42:35 PM »
by the way, what about a booth, here in Pinellas county thye will not issue any new booths, my guy is sharing a shop with a butcher because he needs the booth, i offered to open a better shop but they will not allow a new booth so need an existing
Its all about knowing laws, local laws, city laws... what a business has to have.. Most paint and body shops.. a Booth is a requirement.  Most people don't know that you can paint a car in the driveway legally and get away with it either.  I do not recommend doing that BTW... You can...but your neighbors will hate you for it. Prepping a car and getting it ready you do not need a booth to do so....

Offline osso12

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Re: Need work! ( 1977-1979 TA owners )
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2012, 11:37:45 AM »
After doing some soul searching last night.. we might as well forget about this pipe dream of mine.
Why have I given up so early? Its not so much about giving up. The inspiration comes from way down deep inside me somewhere. Its more than just a passion to simply own one of these TAs. But looking realistic at it... I probably have 75% in me that can labor out what it takes, and another 20% id would be relying on out sourcing for doing simple things that I can do, I just don't LIKE doing. That would be only one issue. The main issue I see is that no one out there is gonna loan me money to get started. I have decided it would be futile to go to family over this as they would discourage me anyway. I am broke as a joke for awhile yet. I have to sign a years lease on the 2 car bay building up front. That means I have to obligate myself to a full year to start this. Its a bit risky at best considering I do not have the $500 for the first months rent, nor the $500 deposit. I would need at least $1,000 up front, and would probably a certificate of occupancy with the city which is around a $100... then you have water and electric on top of that which I do not know how much it runs. I have enough tools and raw materials to get started on a project though.
If I do decide to do this, I need to do it right and not in a way that is gonna jeopardize me losing the building for the first year. I did not check to see what penalty there is for reneging on a contract.   So... Acquiring the building would be the first step. I don't have the $1,000 up front, and there is no sense in trying to use money from the work coming in. That is a major mistake I know and don't wanna go there. We have to ask ourselves the question. What is a reasonable amount of time to paint a car? My black 68 I was told two weeks. It took nearly 2 years. And that was with a professional shop doing it. They did not spend that much time on the car, but between insurance jobs coming in, they would not work on it. I am going to peek at the pics to see how long it took me to paint the blue camaro out in my driveway. Ok just a quick glance...the dates on the camera are wrong...  Looking back at it, I got the car on a summer month like in june.... I had it in paint by december because I was worried about cold settling in.. So id say 6 months is  more than reasonable to work with. So if we say 6 months... $3,500 we would need just for the building alone... Then we have to look at the liability factor of painting WITHOUT a paint booth. Can we do it without a booth? Sure. At least until a city official comes nosing around on the property. So really this is all just a crap shoot pipe dream. I am not going out on the limb and borrow the money. I have A1 credit, but no income. Sorry I have waisted your guys time, I just don't see it happening. If someone can see something I may not see, feel free to let us know. It possible that when and if I get my settlement check and If I dont spend it all on a TA or something I might continue to look into this venture. We will see but can't make any promises. 
« Last Edit: August 13, 2012, 11:41:44 AM by osso12 »

Offline Elz

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Re: Need work! ( 1977-1979 TA owners )
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2012, 12:02:09 PM »
If you have a skill there is always going to be someone that will want to take advantage of it. Do you know anyone that has extra space? In my case, I have a good friend who has enough space for me to do my work. In return, I have painted his motorcycle and his 8N tractor. I throw him some money for electricity every now and then and things are good. This is an ideal situation since I don't have to sign a lease or pay rent. It would have to be a good person that you know well or things might not go very smooth. You don't want to turn their place into a junk yard, and you also don't want to get taken advantage of. Just a thought for you.

Offline osso12

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Re: Need work! ( 1977-1979 TA owners )
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2012, 01:18:19 PM »
Thanks bro for the comment. Well.. I do.. But I dont wanna intrude ya know?
My house originally did have a garage. It got turned into a den where I am actually typing this from. There has been some talks back and forth with me and family members (my daughter wants to help me with the business) about opening up this area again and put the garage back where it was. Would not cost a whole lot, just knock the walls down and put the door back. I might research that idea more. Thanks for the thought. My neighbor has a single car garage where she has stored a 67 camaro since it was new. Its the only thing in there, and I do not see her letting go of that car anytime soon. She has a double car garage in the back yard....... has mainly some shelves and stuff...
again.. its all hers and dont wanna intrude... My brother has a double car garage.... he keeps his 1999 Mustang Cobra convertible parked in there...... The other half is used for storage... again.. dont wanna intrude there.....
My mom..... has a double car garage and then some but it has a 1985 Z28 convertible that I will inherit (dont have a place for it) one day.. It stays on the battery tender 7 days a week... It needs a new top so I don't see it leaving the garage anytime soon. They are in the process of selling the house... so again I do not want to intrude.... There is a storage building complex across the street from me. The problem is, they don't want you trying to run a business out of it let alone paint a car...there is no electricity anyway.... I could PROBABLY get away with starting on some cars in my driveway.... I could hold at least FOUR cars...... as long as they have license plates on them, the city cant do anything about it.....but again as I type this its 91 outside in the dallas heat and will be 100 by probably 2 pm and stay 100 until about 7:30 tonight.. so its way to hot in the driveway at the moment of even thinking of doing something like this. IF I had enough TRUE genuine interest in this, I would push my folks to loan me the money to help kick start this if we could come up with a plan. If they knew I had  a good plan for this, they would help.. if they seen it was a reasonable decision on my part...and if they knew I had legitimate work lined up. Yes, I know its hard for any shop to keep a float....  I looked at one time into getting the capitol for lifts, lease on a building for at least two years... capitol to buy at least 6 cars..... tools.. computers... came up to needing about 170k for upstart....
Now whos gonna loan a layed off individual that can't score a job $170k for a start up business. Absolutely no one. So I have researched this doing what I would call the "BEST" way...... Just aint gonna happen.. and even if I COULD get $170k for upstart....  I would be more focused on repaying that loan... so if I am more focused on repaying a loan.. where is the quality? You see, the focus can get changed real quick. Could I turn out a good product for that kind of up start? I have no doubt in my mind on that one. But how long would these cars sit? Lets say I had built
6 bandit clones....and I only wanted $18k for them and they look exceptional. Do we have a market for 6 bandit clones? How long would they sit before sold?
I talked in length with my mom in great detail about all this just yesterday. Her response to me "You should not feel everyone feels the same way you do about these kind of cars." "It is a small niche market" " I fee you would be better off buying old pickups and redoing them." Buy them, paint em, clean em up and flip em for profit" "I feel there would be a better nich market for something like that other then the bandits." "You also have to take in the fact, who is your target audience with money?" "It would be the older generation that has money like I do that would be able to pay for your cars" and that is what mom says. And she is 65. So mom does have some valid points. She supports my dreams... but she does not want for me to make a mistake. She says I get "TOO GUNG Ho" on the camaros and firebirds.. and I told her this. "I am passionate about camaros and firebirds" "So if I am passionate about firebirds and camaros don't you think I would be better off doing those kinda of cars instead of pickups" her answer? "Start wtih something smaller and go up from there." so there ya have it. Right from mom's mouth. If momma aint happy...then no one is happy.
So that brings up a valid point. My target audience. Who are they? Are they just people here on 78ta.com?
Are they 16- 21 year olds? Are they my age group the 40-50 year olds? Do we have a buying target audience?
With watching the BAB threads.. I say WE do. BUT.. even on here is limited. What other resources can we tap?
Craigslist? neh. Only maybe after we got started on projects or ready to sell something would we look to CL.
Ebay? eh...... Until BAB is out of the way...then NO. I do NOT want to follow in BAB foot steps in anyway.
Elz, the garage Idea is a good one though. I am going to look more into that, and maybe speak with family on that one as it is a avenue that has been brought up before.  Preciate it.

Offline hada76

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Re: Need work! ( 1977-1979 TA owners )
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2012, 03:22:52 PM »
if your a decent painter, try to get a job spraying some cars. maybe at a maaco or small shop.
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Offline TransAm_Stan

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Re: Need work! ( 1977-1979 TA owners )
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2012, 05:12:52 PM »
I understand & hear your passion.  Sometimes passion will not pay the bills.  With what your are proposing, sounds like to me that you would be just trading & moving dollars around.  No real profit in the bank. 

Let me hit you with this....

With your skills, have you ever considered a "rent a mechanic"?  Or as in the medical field it would be called a "traveling Mechanic"? 

For instance Joe blow has "x" needed done to his Trans Am.  You show up, live with the person paying the bills, work on or restore the car to mutual satisfaction & then go to the next job or home to TX.

Granted Joe Blow needs to be able to provide you with certain things to do the job, plus room & board & meals too.  Hopefully you get the idea.

Wanna make a trip to WV to test it out?

Stan
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Offline joe d

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Re: Need work! ( 1977-1979 TA owners )
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2012, 05:54:44 PM »
good idea stan, i agree with you Osso as you should not try to start a business with an empty wallet as the risk is to great for your loss, i would seriously consider calling around to see if someone will hire you freelance to spray their cars even if you have to pro-bono one to convince
1979 ws6 trans am (current project)
2005 mercedes s55
2001 dodge durango
1980 SE trans am (new current project)
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Offline osso12

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Re: Need work! ( 1977-1979 TA owners )
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2012, 08:16:56 PM »
Stan, thanks for the offer bro. I have seen your project and you need to move forward with it, and go ahead and spray that bad boy! What are you waiting for? Thanks Joe for the other ideas. While I have you on the peg board... Are you at all interested in selling that Nocturne Blue you have? just curious? Ill be looking for one one of these days...  I just got a letter today and I go to court Oct 25th... So that may change some things around as well. Its not a bad Idea.. I might be able to pick up some local work around here. Anyone on 78.ta that is close that might can give me some chance? Might put up a barter on CL or something. That might not be a too bad of an Idea.