Author Topic: pontiac 301  (Read 7379 times)

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Offline jjr

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Re: pontiac 301
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2011, 12:35:25 AM »

 If simply better performance is the key, then the forth gen cars
with the LS-1/LT-1 series of engines would be an even better
choice than any 2nd gen engine. They even get decent gas
mileage...

 In my opinion the 301 to 400 swap is kinda marginal. Most of
the non SD 455 motors where only what 200 hp anyways...

 So on one hand you can have the generally good running
301 original engine, or spend some serious money for a 400/455
and get a "little" more early torque. But if you want serious
hp, you just wasted some good money for some pretty old
technoligy. And of course, once swapped it's just another hacked
up old car with little resale value.

 Joe
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com

Offline 72blackbird

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Re: pontiac 301
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2011, 11:28:31 AM »
A 301 to 400 swap is marginal? I doubt that.

The 400 has the potential to make over 500 hp with no turbos, blowers, or nitrous and on pump gas- try that w/ a 301T and and all you'd have is one very expensive grenade waiting to explode. And what some might consider old technology is also proven- unless you are a GM Master tech you won't be able to get that LT-1 or LS-1 running again without a lot of diagnostic work once the sensor pack starts failing. The Pontiac V-8 is a 50+ year old design, yet it can make the same hp as any high-tech GM LS V-8. The abundant supply of aftermarket parts available for the 326-455 Poncho and the numerous high performance builds done and currently running in hundreds of thousands of classic high performance Pontiacs indicates it's a classic design that is still very capable- it's really the only true choice if you want to retain collector value and still have a high performance engine. A custom build from a known Pontiac builder will only add value to your ride, not deduct from it.

The reason so many classic Pontiac owners stay away from 301's is because they just don't  stand up to high performance street use- so many blow up when their owners push them too hard. If the 301 was as good as any other engine in the 326-455 Pontiac family there would be 1000's of them making 400-500 hp- and of course we all know that is not the case. The 301 is a decent engine for grocery getter use or point A-B travel- try to make it something more and you'll be pulling out a blown up engine for a real Pontiac v-8.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 11:30:10 AM by 72blackbird »

Offline 78w72

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Re: pontiac 301
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2011, 09:03:22 PM »
comparing a stock 400 of the mid 70's to a good running slightly modded 301 or 301t is in fact marginal.  the comparison was to a 200 hp stock 400 say from 76-78.  of course there is no comparison to a hopped up 400/455 to a 301.  but it takes alot of money to make the 500 horse power from 400's compared to a basic rebuild with basic parts like cam & headers for a 301.  big difference here is th OP wants to keep a basically stock engine & car,  hence the 301, but make it have a little more power.. possibly even kind of sort of impressive.    ;)

 

 
« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 09:08:12 PM by 78w72 »
78 w72 ws6 4 speed
81 turbo pace car
lots of other past t/a's

Offline jjr

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Re: pontiac 301
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2011, 02:28:53 AM »

 To save weight, engineers removed some of the counterweights from the 301
crank. This made it the only externally balanced Pontiac V-8 made.

 They put a limit of 4500 rpm on this engine because of the crankshaft design.

 Since non chevy GM V-8's mostly make their best power in the low to mid rpm
range, the design worked fine. What we have found is that if someone ignores
the restriction, the crank flexes slightly in the middle and starts some bad main
bearing wear that can quickly spread. High revs are outside the power band, and
essentially the damage is really abuse caused by ignorance.

 The "other" design limit is the single plane, small channel, high velocity intake system
that was born to get some fuel economy. When they turbo charged the thing, the
intake system was no longer the problem.

 Perhaps the largest problem the 301 sees is oil choking in the turbo's oil passages,
destroying a precision turbo built to spin at 130,000 rpm.

 Later owners of these cars usually got one with a dead turbo and concluded that
they were dogs... They weren't, but needed an informed owner to take car of their
needs.

 In 1980, a stock turbo TA paced Indy. All they did was take out the AC compressor,
change rear gears to 2.56 and use shaved tires. To pace the race, the Pace car
had to handle 80-100 mph. That's getting some groceries pretty darn fast I think...

 Joe
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com