How many 78TA 4spd W72 cars had T-tops?

[TAFEVER]

I was wondering how many of the 1978 TA's with 4spd W72 had the T-top option?
The numbers listed on this website list 10,916 total but how many with T-tops?

[79WS6Resto]

Pontiac/GM didn't keep known records of options like that except for the SE models for some reason.

[Hammer]

TAFEVER,
No one knows the answer to your question, not even GM.

[TAFEVER]

You have got to be kididng me!    From 1977 to 1978 that means there were probably alot of stuff that didnt get recorded. Has anybody ever seen a 78 TA 4spd W72 car with T-tops? Just trying to get an idea if one even exists.

[TA78]

Here's Mine.

[blue81ta]

Here's another:

[y88rick]

a buddy of mine has a red one with white int. hurst hatches. w72 4speed he had a marty blue one as well until a month or two ago.

[jphillips3333]

They did a lot of drugs and disco in the 70's ... it's expected that everybody has hazy memories ... even GM.

[Hammer]

You have got to be kididng me!    From 1977 to 1978 that means there were probably alot of stuff that didnt get recorded. Has anybody ever seen a 78 TA 4spd W72 car with T-tops? Just trying to get an idea if one even exists.

NO kidding!

They are out there, we just don't know how many.  Not even GM knows. 

[Rick]

You guys have to realize the mindset at the factory, particularly during that time.  The philosophy was that they were building something that would be replaced in 4-7 years.  Record keeping beyond what was required by the Federal government (DOT, NHTSA, EPA, etc.) was something that was just an overhead expense.  They never expected that any significant number of these cars would be around in 10 years.  The EPA estimates that within a mere 13 years 99.9% of any particular model year is off the road.  John Schinella, the head designer at Pontiac through the latter part of the gen 2 years, was totally BLOWN AWAY at this year's Nats when he saw the number and pristine condition of the cars at the show.  He never DREAMED that they'd still be around 30+ years later.  The bottom line is that we are lucky to have the records we have, as incomplete as some might consider them now.  Back in the day, before computers, saving off that information was expensive and difficult, so it just wasn't done very thoroughly.  You'd have to meticulously micro-fiche each invoice and store it away on film, whereas today you just copy a database to a DVD or other mass storage media with the click of a key.

[jphillips3333]

Agreed we're lucky to have what we've got - I know I refer to those numbers frequently, however spotty and unscientific/inaccurate they may be.

How do you substantiate the number of remaining cars from '70 to '81 are actually left ... is it 50,000?  5,000?

I really wish there was a way to search nationally through some DMV records for VINs from each year.  I'm surprised there isn't a push for that type of information from car clubs.  Sure, some aren't on the road and registered, some are in Europe, Australia & Canada ... the Middle East, probably elsewhere.  That said, you'd have a much better feel for what's potentially left if that information was accessible and add another 1% for foreign exports & 2% for and unaccounted type class ... or similar numbers.

There is a database accessible that let's you enter a VIN and see if there's a lienholder.  Here's the Florida one;
https://www7.hsmv.state.fl.us/vehiclecheck/

I've keyed in my VIN and it comes back with no information on me.  If they'd let you do a wildcard search with say a "2X87Z9L*", I'd get all of the TATA's in the state of Florida with four speeds made in Van Nuys.  That'd be cool information to have.

[79WS6Resto]

How do you substantiate the number of remaining cars from '70 to '81 are actually left ... is it 50,000?  5,000?

That would be a cool fact to know...not to determine worth but just to know how many are left out of what were built.
Using the total Firebird production (Firebird, Esprit, Formula, and Trans Am) numbers (here: http://www.78ta.com/production.php ),
 there were a total of 1,189,408 birds built from '70-'81.

That's a lot of birds! 

[y88rick]

well i own two of them lol

[jphillips3333]

I've got three.  So we know there's at least five out there.  LOL.

[y88rick]

yup and my uncle owns two as well and one buddy owns 2 and another guy i know well lets just say its at atleast 6 that i am certain of. and one down the street from me that i discovered today.