Hitman's Pontiac Trans Am Forum
Classifieds => Parts Suppliers => Topic started by: 79ban1 on October 17, 2012, 09:09:45 PM
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Just went and put my hood bird on again the first one was messed up from bad printing after I put the new one on and let it sit for awhile I went to pull the top protective cover off and it wouldn't budge so i pulled a little more and it started to pull the decal back off the hood. so i waited a little longer and tried it again still doing the same thing and there was so much residual glue left on the decal after I finally got it off it looks like crap. So I called PG and talked to a guy there he said use lighter fluid to remove it so I did now it looks faded. I'm so going to just rip this thing back off. The first one I put on a few years back went on so smooth and the protective cover just peeled right of no problem.
Is here anyone else making graphic kits for these cars and has anyone used them?
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Don't tell me that! That step is coming up in my build and the guy already cleared the car so I CAN'T do the Airbrush like I wanted to?!
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I don't know what some peoples methods are at putting it on with no errors but I'd like to know what they are. Do they let them dry for a few days with the cover still on or what, PG gives no instructions on how to do it with the kits. I think the glue they use between the graphic and it protective cove is just way to strong. And why don't they leave some what of an edge that you can grab when pulling the cover off instead of having to peel up part of the decal to even get it started.
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its best to let the hood sit in the sun for a few hours on a nice day..... CA shouldnt have the problem..... and make sure the glue on the back of the decal has gotten a chance to adhere to the hood.... also making sure the hood is free of any wax and grease is a must......when you remove the protective cover, you need to pull it as close to a 180 degree as possible.... keeping an eye on the area that meets the hood where the cover is coming off..... thats the most strain it will see, and the decal can stretch..... really bad with stripes... the residue will come off with wax/grease remover and some scrubbing..... IPA can take it off as well
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I went over the hood with wax and grease remover first and made sure it was dust free. put the car in the sun for a few hours and then attempted to pull off the cover. pulling it as flat 180 degrees as I could. it all looked good but the it started to pull the decal so i let it set longer in the sun I think that made it worse. I guess I'll have to buy another and try again. I've put a couple on before and didn't have this much of a problem. The decals for my truck went on very easily that I got from them.
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Surprised about that. I've been doing vinyl graphics for several years, I would have never told you to use lighter fluid on a decal. Most likely what happened is the decal they gave you was a little old and the transfer tape adhered to the decal. That will make it hard to remove and leave the residue from the transfer tape. If you aren't applying the decal dry you have to wait a while for all the application fluid to dry before you can pull the transfer tape off like Eroc said. That still doesn't excuse the residue from the transfer tape. The lighter fluid will dull the laminate on the vinyl. You could probably purchase a very light swirl remover like Meguiars number 9 swirl remover and get it to shine back up. I would try that before you pull the decal off.
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Surprised about that. I've been doing vinyl graphics for several years, I would have never told you to use lighter fluid on a decal. Most likely what happened is the decal they gave you was a little old and the transfer tape adhered to the decal. That will make it hard to remove and leave the residue from the transfer tape. If you aren't applying the decal dry you have to wait a while for all the application fluid to dry before you can pull the transfer tape off like Eroc said. That still doesn't excuse the residue from the transfer tape. The lighter fluid will dull the laminate on the vinyl. You could probably purchase a very light swirl remover like Meguiars number 9 swirl remover and get it to shine back up. I would try that before you pull the decal off.
the clear crap phoenix is putting on their decals does it to everything.... the stripes turn out horrible.......
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The same happened to me except I did not use lighter fluid to remove the glue. I was so mad about the decal and premask that the glue is still on the decals.
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I had to step away I was so mad. I almost peeled the whole thing off as soon as I was done putting it on. I wrote PG a long letter about the problem I had and some changes that they should make.
I took my time made sure all the creases and bubbles were all out and let the thing set for a few hours before I started to pull the cover off just like I had done with the others I had got from PG. Couldn't even get the cover to release the graphic at first then pulled up the tip of the wing and got it to separate but of course now the wing tip won't set stick back down and several edges now won't stick back down after being lifted by the cover sticking to it when I pulled it off.
So frustrated right now.
I want my paper backed, paper backed, paper backed, graphics back.
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Do you still have the release liner (backing paper)? Does it have any print on it? Would be curious what kind of vinyl they are using. If it is Oracal, I have had bad luck with their quality lately. Printers like it because it is cheap. Also the clear transfer tape doesn't work well with application fluid because it has nowhere to go. With paper transfer tape the fluid would soak into the transfer tape, then you could also spray more fluid over top of the tape to help peel it off the applied decal.
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I had problems when doing a complete kit on my '80 Pace and I do vinyl for a living. It appears that the backing is indeed the problem. Now sometimes you have to wait a little before putting the pre-mast on the decal. Not sure if that's what the problem is or not. I know my decal was new because I had to wait a while until it was made before they shipped it. My problem was that on some of the lettering the pre-mast was pulling some of the color off the decal. Phoenix wasn't too worried about it so I touched them up myself.
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Pete with Fbody sent me a video of installation after I had my problem. I will admit that it suggest waiting 24 hours or so before peeling premask. My installer only waited a few hours as he has done for 20 years with the paper masking. He was not familiar with the plastic premask and installed it the same way. I may have had better results had we waited overnight, however, the bond was so strong that it continually tore as we tried removing it.
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We have layed about 20 kits with the new backing and no issues in the end. The process is simply a bit different now.
The paper back allowed the water to dissolve faster and hence you before the change could pull it off in about 2 hours now you should wait a day.
The lighter fluid trick works very well also.
We have a lot of clients call asking about this and when they are having a shop install I have the shop call me directly. Many guys have done this for 30 years BUT when the process changes it changes and the backing paper does not care if you have devoted your life to decal installs. LOL it needs to be done differently.
In a way it is a blessing to the owner though as while a shop may have done this for 30 years you and that shop tech are now on a level playing field and not better time then the preasent to learn to do something you can indeed do at home.
Pete
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Pete, I sometimes buy pre-made graphics from multiple companies such as Image Works, Lethal Threat, Universal Products, and auto trim express. Back about 4-5 years ago some of these companies started doing graphics on vinyl with air brushed painted designs on them. When applying them with paper backing you could stretch the graphic a good deal and cause the print to look bad. So, they switched to the plastic stuff. This eliminated the problem except for 2 new problems. 1, was that you had to use the graphic relatively soon after the pre mask was applied. 2, if the pre mask was applied too quickly after the decal was made it could cause the print to come off when peeling the pre mask off. Now, many of these companies are making decals with much higher degree of detail and such so they have to know what to do. It's crazy when you pull the decal out of the box and start to apply it you can smell fresh paint !!!!
My issues were with the fender and rear spoiler "trans am" names. Mind you, I installed the whole entire kit at the same time and same techniques. No where else did I have any issues. When I got to these parts, the pre mask looked old and a little bit yellowed. Only reasons for this is that they either were on the shelf for a long time or were exposed to high temps for a time (it was 93 degrees out when I got them so who knows how hot they got in the FedEx truck). Luckily for me knowing what to do, I was able to correct it. Others I am sure aren't. I can't see that it's "installer error" all the time when you can get simular products from other vinyl graphic companies, even those that make the same exact kits for our F-Body'd cars
Here's some links to the other companies that I use.
http://www.lethalthreat.com/products/vehicle-graphics/
http://www.autotrimdesign.net/4x4_Decal_Kits.asp
http://www.imageworksmedia.com/digital_auto_graphics.shtml
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My decal had been sitting for about 6 months inside my house in the packing container that it was shipped in. Is age a factor on this new stuff?Why wouldn't PG send instructions inside the kits with updated application info?
I did notice that one color was sticking to the top cover more than the another colors and when I did call PG they asked which color hood bird I was doing. I asked if they were having any issues with there product and of course he said no.
Maybe I'll find a company around here to make me a hood bird there are a lot of vinyl places here in So Cal.
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If you have it stored in a clean, dry, relatively cool environment free of UV light you should be OK
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My decal had been sitting for about 6 months inside my house in the packing container that it was shipped in. Is age a factor on this new stuff?Why wouldn't PG send instructions inside the kits with updated application info?
I did notice that one color was sticking to the top cover more than the another colors and when I did call PG they asked which color hood bird I was doing. I asked if they were having any issues with there product and of course he said no.
Maybe I'll find a company around here to make me a hood bird there are a lot of vinyl places here in So Cal.
Age is a factor with these graphics. The longer the adhesive of the transfer tape sits, the more it bites into the graphics. Kind of like when you have an older roll of masking tape, it gets harder to peel off the roll.
You mention a color coming off the graphic. This would lead me to believe that the graphic isn't laminated. I find that kind of hard to believe too since the guy told you to use lighter fluid on it. Did you get color coming off on your rag when you were doing this? I'm sure the original decals weren't laminated, but in this day and age it just makes sense, just like clear coat, it gives you an extra layer of protection. I would love to help you out and get you a graphic printed but I have stayed out of this since I don't have access to an original decal to match and all the different color configurations. Hope you get this resolved.
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Elz, no they are not laminated. I too wouldn't mind if they were but with todays inks that isn't always needed. The vinyl printer I have access to is about 6' long and can run a continious roll of vinyl. It heats up the substrate while it "prints". This allows for deep penetration of the inks. The inks themselves are also UV, gas, and oil resistant. Before my buddy got that machine we would constantly laminate or clear the vinyl if it were to be used in extreme conditions. Today, this isn't really needed.
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The actual color wasn't coming off the decal it was just the glue from the cover sticking to one color more than the rest. At this point I'm thinking about getting a custom bird done. The car is a resto mod any way and not a stock build so I may play around a bit it illustrator with different styles if birds. Might as well put my degree in graphic design to work. I'm thinking of more of just an outline of a bird like on the 77 but with the 79 style bird.
So elz if it's not a stock bird would you be willing to print something up and how much?
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The actual color wasn't coming off the decal it was just the glue from the cover sticking to one color more than the rest. At this point I'm thinking about getting a custom bird done. The car is a resto mod any way and not a stock build so I may play around a bit it illustrator with different styles if birds. Might as well put my degree in graphic design to work. I'm thinking of more of just an outline of a bird like on the 77 but with the 79 style bird.
So elz if it's not a stock bird would you be willing to print something up and how much?
PM sent
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The actual color wasn't coming off the decal it was just the glue from the cover sticking to one color more than the rest.......
On mine the color was actually sticking to the premask
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Just got an email from PG. I sent them some pics and asked them several questions and made a few suggestions on product changes.
We'll see how they respond.
I checked the paper they are printing on and it's Avery Isn't that a cheaper product than a 3M product? I know Avery in Office Depot is a cheaper product than others.
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..... it's Avery Isn't that a cheaper product than a 3M product? I know Avery in Office Depot is a cheaper product than others.
In a sense yes but Avery vinyl isn't that bad. There are others out there. The company that I use that airbrushes onto vinyl uses 3m. The newer 3m stuff is the bomb. It has tiny checkers stamped into the vinyl making it better and easier to move around when setting things up. Once you press it into place and it cures out, the checker pattern disappears.