Topic: Build a Bandit

[brian c]

I'm not making that jump without facts.

Would it be legal to paint that 80-81 pace car as a 79? Sure. As long as the VIN doesn't get changed and its titled at the DMV/BMV as the 80-81.

Moving vins between donor chassis's - illegal. VIN swapping plain and simple. We've had that discussion here before, let's not rehash it again.

Now, a Repair Shop is allowed to remove the VIN from the vehicle to repair the dash as long as that same VIN goes right back on the vehicle it came off of. The dash corners are notorious for rotting on these cars so its within the realm of possibilities that a repair was indeed required. More questions would need to be answered by both the car owner and Bob to determine legality.

[Flounder55]

I realize that VIN swapping is ILLEGAL. I guees it does not seem like a good bussiness decision to change a VALUABLE 80 pace car to a less valuable 78-79.

 Are not the 80 pacecars  very collectable?  Just seems strange to me.....that's all I'm saying.

[brian c]

Yes and no. To a collector, yes. To the average joe, probably not so much.

The Bandit cars have all the press so they are more desirable and thus command a greater value on resale - clone or not. The pacecars, not so much. When you think Trans Am, you think Bandit - black & gold.

It's the delimma I'm going through now with the 80 Firebird I have. Do I go Pace Car or do I go Bandit? Wife says she likes the Pace Car scheme but since its not truly her car (ie she didn't pick it out for herself - yeah we're going there...guess I need to let her pick out a project car huh?) that I can paint it whatever I like. As long as it gets sold off before the next project is purchased.

[brian c]

Besides, the jump from 80-81 to a 79 Trans Am isn't as big a deal as you think. Gas tank filler door gets changed. If it were a turbo car, the hood gets changed. Voila 79 Trans Am from a 80-81 Pace Car. Those are the biggest differences.

Take that same 80-81 car and now clone it to a 77-78 and you're into a world of changes. Front & rear bumpers change. Front bumper brackets change. Rear tail panel needs to be changed OR spacers used for the 77-78 tail lights. New filler neck for gas tank. Dimmer switch needs to be mounted on the floor so steering column also needs a change out. Rear wiring harness is different. All air dams are different. Etc. As you can see, a host of work to take a 80-81 and make it a 77-78. A smart business man would start with a 76-78 to make a 77-78 SE clone and a 79-81 to make a 79-81 SE clone to avoid having to do extra work.

[johnc9909]

Thanks for all your input guys. We will try to put it all to good use. As for the subject of converting a 80 Pace Car of Joe's to 79 SE / bandit clone, I've even seen Bob convert a 10th anniversary T/A into a SE / Bandit clone. So that doesn't surprise me.  I know to a collector that's a shame because a 10th anniversary is even more valuable than a 80 Pace car. Most people who call Bob want a SE/ Bandit clone, so he uses whatever he has in stock. There is nothing illegal about making any Firebird look like a SE/ bandit as long as people know it's a clone and still carries whatever vin it originally was.

[RainMan]

Having a 79 -81 converted to a 78 SE would not bother me . If I had the shop space I would be doing it , as clean 78's with Fisher T's  are scarce where as 79 to 81 seem to be allot more plentiful. Maybe because they made more and maybe because very few people want to part with there 78's , especially black on black ones

[jgodar]

Thanks guys! I will check my VIN to be DOUBLE sure.. but like J said, I dont see that Bob has a dog in the fight on the VINS. He let me pick this car and same with John. He did not sell me on the Pace car, simply showed me it was in decent shape and was able to get me a car sooner than later. He did not charge extra for any VIN over another.  So I dont see him benefitting from messing with the VINS.. I wanted the 79 SE tribute and accepted this car when he told me it was an 80 Pace car..

I am interested to make sure the VIN I have is correct as I did order my PHS docs and also for resale and legal reasons. I simply want to know what I have so one day I can tell someone else exactly what it was. Thats my main interest..if he was posting "numbers matching 79 SE" and charging a premium for it, then I see the reason to change them, but that is not the case here..

We are making list of these issues and getting them to Bob, so all of this is EXTREMELY helpful!! Thanks again!

[Flounder55]

Joe , the only reason I brought that up was when Brian pointed out the partially painted A/C suitcase and then the skeptic in me took over.

 Like Brian said, they have had to replace the heater core but why not paint the whole thing?

 And I thought that was where the other VIN plate was so.......It was just a thought. Like I said, I'm a rookie to these cars and given Bob previous track record it was not an extreme reach to to there.
 It appears that changing years is not that uncommon so I learned something.

[RainMan]

To bad people don't pay Bob with there visa . Then you could tell visa to get your money back when you submit a "product not received " complaint .
Ok I doubt  Bob is able to use visa , what was I thinking

[JupiterBandit]

I would think $15k for a rebuild is a lot. I mean 3k in body, 3k in paint, 3k in interior, 3k in motor what's the other 3k for? I know suspension brakes and tires. And that is good money for that stuff too!

[midyear]

I would think $15k for a rebuild is a lot. I mean 3k in body, 3k in paint, 3k in interior, 3k in motor what's the other 3k for? I know suspension brakes and tires. And that is good money for that stuff too!

lets see, how complete and nice is a 3K ta currently?? there are additional body parts you may need to replace, trans, exhaust, weatherstrips, wheels and tires, most likely a windshield, wheel flares are always an issue, some grills, decals and stripes......that alone is easily over 3K.

you are assuming you can go out and buy a solid, straight, complete, running, rust free t top trans am for 3k, because if its not, no body shop will touch the paint for 3K, and any performance mods will run the engine well over 3K. any real shop trying to make any profit at all, would have a hard time supplying and building a nice TA for 15K without cutting corners

[JupiterBandit]

I don't know what kind of restoration you're doing but good luck with that

[midyear]

I don't know what kind of restoration you're doing but good luck with that

I am guessing you have never restored a car, because anyone who has knows about all the added costs that keep adding up.

[Flounder55]

Midyear, I keep telling Jupiter he has been standing to  close to that radio active sign....LOL.

  While I can't speak to most of what a build costs........unless you go to BAB/PP then I would say "TOO MUCH"

 I DO know I spent 4500 for a 400 that is supposed to put out 400HP with 460 torque and that cheap! Butler wants a WHOLE lot more.

[RainMan]

what's the other 3k for?

he may have to turn a profit