Topic: Build a Bandit

[Flounder55]

The facts are..that I pull that statement after I went to  build a bandit/facebook reviews. I'm not try to come AFTER you.
 There just needs to be some accountability from Bob,You and anybody that defends MR. McElreath!

  I'll ask you the same question I asked Joe. When you responded to Bob's ad were you looking for a ok T/A? A Just SO-SO T/A? a mediocre T/A? HELL NO you responded to an ad that said FULLY RESTORED T/A! JAY, your not gonna get what you paid for.In  a few years( or sooner) your build is gonna start falling apart. Why? Because you don't know any better and Bob counts on that,Hell he might not even know any better.
 There are ALOT of little details that go into building these cars  CORRECTLY but you don't know that and Bob is counting on it!

 Just from the pictures Joe produced there have been guys on here that have commented on some errors in the build. Your NOT gonna get that on facebook. Just alot of slaps on the back and high fives and misconstructed cars!

  And if you say something one place and are not MAN enough to admit it in another well yeah I take exception to that too.
 Now here's one thing bet you WON'T do. Bring pictures of your build here let the guys on this site look it over and point out any flaws if there are any then go back to Mr. McElreath and ask him to correct them. Your gonna start pissing him off REAL quick!
 But....you wanna keep Bob happy sooooo you'll probably just let it go. You paid him the money but now HE has you by the balls! 
  There's something wrong with that.

[brian c]

Hey guys lets keep this civil shall we? Decaying into a mudslinging fest with personal attacks isn't going to do anyone any good. All it's going to do is get this thread locked or moved out of the public eye.

Keep on point with this being about BAB experiences.


As for the comments on a 15k build...It should be darn near perfect. Not paint slapped over top of bondo hiding rust. Especially when the owner states these are full frame off restorations and when the customer gets their car back, its far from it. Bob's own words were that Flounder's car was perfect and almost finished. Would you personally call his car perfect or almost finished? I certainly wouldn't and I'd be thoroughly PO'd if I had paid that much cash for a car that was a bondo bucket. From the (2) examples that have made it out into the wild, that's exactly what you're getting. If you count the guy that's posting up on Ebay there's another car that's got Bob's fingerprints all over it so there's (3) examples. Count another customer on Ebay that's posted his car up a couple times showing the flaws (and a better grasp of the english language) and that's (4) cars that have less than quality craftsmanship. Ohh heck, a student in a High School shop class couldn't do any worse than Bob.

So the numbers are stacking up that these cars, while good intentions, will not be up to the expectations that Bob, not the customer, set.

For everyone's sake, I hope Bob refunds the money he's already admitted to owing TAWidow, actually burries his pride (and stops the threats - which btw: I'd be calling out the Po-Po on his butt asap for making threats) to provide Flounder the parts he's duly owed, and everyone that has a contract with him actually gets it settled in an expedient manner. After that point, I'd hope he'd crawl back under the rock he came out of.

[Flounder55]

Thank you Brian, I'm guilty of the mudslinging but I have a problem with people that defend Bob, I understand working with him because your trying to make the best out of a bad situation but DONT DEFEND him.

 Guys, it's clear these guys on facebook could use some constructive critiqueing of their builds maybe some of you can help them. I ,Joe,Jay,ELI and even Bob don't know what's correct but some of you guys do! Joe was receptive to the feedback maybe Jay and Eli will be as well.
 Brian, your right and I apologize. This site should be used to discuss,inform and promote T/A's. NOT for personal tirades and bashings and I KNOW I'm guilty. I apologize to you,Jay,Joe and anybody that reads this thread.

    George W Payne

[Flounder55]

Oh...and the Po Po has been notified of the death threat and the child molestation accusation.

[midyear]

you wanna keep Bob happy sooooo you'll probably just let it go. You paid him the money but now HE has you by the balls! 
  There's something wrong with that.

Sad but True, Bob is clearly in control of the builds, standards, and quality...and in JGodar's case, even changed the year of his build.

[brian c]

No problem Flounder.

For those of you who have cars in his shop currently, how about posting some actual High quality and large photos? Not the postage stamp sized stuff over on B-A-B or facebook but High Quality and large photos that you can actually see detail on. Show us that we're wrong with our comments - I'll be happy to eat crow if need be.

Simply host them on Photobucket - it's free so why not - and paste the IMG line into your reply post. We're all photo whores here so how about satisfying the mob??

[jgodar]

I really want to keep this as straight forward and civil as possible. But since my last post there obviously are a few things I will address.
1. I am not a troll for Bob. George and I have spoken many times, he knows me by now and can vouch for me I am sure.
2. I am not "promoting" Bob. Those are your words, not mine. No where do you see me saying anything close to promoting his business. I am only reporting my build and showing what I am doing on the sites I built. I am truly excited to finally get a Trans Am that I have wanted for years. Thats all.

What is going on here is people are taken back by me and others that are "working" with Bob vs the "lets put him out of business" way of thinking. Like I said in the post yesterday. I picked a different way of getting my car from Bob. Maybe my way is best, maybe not. Time will tell. I hope to have the car soon, and you will know all about it here. George and I have spoken that we can not save the world..nor can I, George or TAWIDOW be responsible for Bobs actions, namely if he gives George or anyone money back, he has to rip someone else off.. we have no control over that..TAWIDOW deserves her money back, just the same as I deserve my car and so on..

Now back to the car itself.

Here are the photos on an album I use. These are pics I took. It was a tight area and way too much sun light that day causing shadows etc. But here they are.

https://picasaweb.google.com/101726205057946612608/GodarBuildTASept142012#

Bob was the first one to point out to me about the front dash being half black and the back trim by the rear speaker deck being an off color. Those are both on the list to be corrected. I hope that happens. The sterring wheel is temporary, not the one I want. just fyi..

I accepted it to be a 1980 by VIN and for him to clone the 79 SE I wanted. When he resurfaced he told me he had this 1980 and it would be the fastest car he could finish for me, so I said OK. No one wants to be thru this any more than me!

Also Bob does not promote an OFF frame restore. As posted here too.. that is not correct.

We, John, Eli and myself are not accepting sub par cars. It is not going like that at all. I will accept and use and appreciate any feedback here to help make this by the best car I can get from Bob.

Maybe I am too optimistic, but I prefer to work with people thru problems and tough times. I was not happy about many things too. But I am just doing the best I can with the cards I am dealt. I was the one that paid Bob up front for the car. I put myself in that situation. No one else. So I accept that and am moving forward to get this over. This car is titled in my name and I have insured it and done everything possible to protect myself.

There are blemishes I found in the paint that does not show up in the pictures. But I am told they will be addressed as the car is finished. Bob is 100% aware of my web presence and he knows this will be a highly photographed and videoed car.  So if that helps me to get a really good car, I am happy about it..

He has delivered some cars recently and he simply does not take pics or promote his own builds.. just not his cup of tea. I have spoken to some of these folks and they are very happy with the cars.. they just go under the radar and are not online here or anywhere for that matter.

So let me know what you see on the car.. I am all ears... really!!

Thanks in advance!

Joe

[Flounder55]

Hey guys, Joe is NOT a troll! Remember there was a time when some of you called me a troll, I invited Joe to speak here because it's important that the facts be presented..not just my side . AND...Bob NEVER told me that my car was a FRAME OFF restoration. What DID say was that it would be hard for me to tell the difference.


 Now, Joe ( and maybe others) would really like some CONSTRUCTIVE feedback from you guys. Let's bury the hatchet here and try to help.

 I'm NOT taking up for Bob, I'm saying these guys love T/A's just like the rest of us and admit maybe...just MAYBE they could have taken a different avenue to get one but as Joe said they are playing the hand they are dealt.
 Joe has come here in good faith,not to change your minds but for CONSTUCTIVE input so can we not give it to him. I know I could but I don't know enough. You guys do! So what do say........?

[RainMan]

You don't have a flash on your camera?

[brian c]

Thank you for posting some actual photos where details can be seen.

I'll clear up my comment:

Frame off. I'm sorry but he has waffled on this in the past. His own Ebay ads and his own pontiac-pros website have both touted his frame off restorations. I see that he's waffled on this again and changed his verbage to "almost frame off". So unfortunately, that's not incorrect.

As for ripping someone off to pay a previous purchaser...I couldn't sleep at night knowing I caused someone else to be ripped off in order for me to be satisfied. Not the way I was brought up. And to see this guy do just that, yes that will irk a majority of us around here.


As for your car...what's with the leaning seats with used seat covers? This photo here shows it fairly well:



Notice the uneven coloration of the seat colors in this photo:




I'm assuming you've noticed in this photo that the glovebox door is a different color than the dash cap and that the center console has been redyed (rivets are supposed to be black, not camel tan):



What's up with the body line in this photo:



It comes from the rear bumper, does a little swoosh, up over the wheel arch and down, does another dip & dive routine, and then back up to meet the door line? That's going to require a major rework to get right.

Tail lights aren't refinished in this one (chipped paint on the ribs):




I'll stop there for now and let others chime in on the photos if they desire.

[Flounder55]

Thanks Brian, I'm sure Joe appreciates it! Hey...look at it this way....your causeing Bob to work harded to keep these guys happy.

 

[solargold]

IMHO, I see a car with alot of new parts. The seat covers don't look used to me, maybe dirty, but it is the repro material. I see new shocks, door panels, sill plates, package tray, carpet, visors, door pulls, redyed interior plastics, rubber gaskets, new rims, etc... Bob even put new BF Goodrich and that's one place he could have went cheap. I see some sloppy overspray on the headlight switch and other places but nothing compared to what Flounder received.  This looks like an honest attempt to provide an inexpensive tribute car, which is what most people want. I would not compare it a $30,000 build, which I believe the marketing campaign is trying to pass off as the final product. Would like to know the condition of car and pictures prior to restoration and during to see the real work under the paint. You simply cannot provide a $30,000 for $15,000 without cutting corners. There is not that much room. Time will tell and if you are as happy 2 years after receiving the car as you are when you take delivery then I say you got your monies worth and the deal you had hoped for.

[jgodar]

Thanks Guys.. it is all helpful.. really!!!

I do have a flash of course, but the sun was brutal that day. I was in the shadows trying to take a shot of the car in the sun and some worked and some did not.. oh well..

The seats where being worked on when I showed up. When I started taking pictures, the guys in the shop that were working on the front seats just picked them up and set them on the floor for me to take some pics, so that is why they are side ways as they are not even attached to the base at that point.

As far as me causing someone else to get ripped off, I really dont know what else I am supposed to do. Does everyone want me, George, TA WIDOW and any other clients to walk away from our investment so no one else gets ripped off? I am just asking for the car I paid for. Thats all.. When I was at Bob's shop, he had a full staff of guys working on about 8 or more cars. So in the end, I firmly believe many more customers will get cars than not. Again, just my opinion.

To address the 2 recent posts, I know NOW that I did not pay for a $30,000 restore. But I still want a really nice car. I think I am getting at least my $15,000 worth at this point.

I will use the feedback on the finish items you guys are telling me about here, so that is another THANK YOU for your time to look this over. I know it wont be perfect but I am hoping for the best it can be! THANKS AGAIN!

[brian c]

Agreed but here's my thing...A can of Rustoleum / Krylon costs what...$4? A roll of blue masking tape costs what...$2? So for $6 and maybe an hour of prep, Bob could have painted the back tail lights to like new. And I know, I've done it. It takes longer to mask it off to avoid painting the whole tail light black then it does to actually spray it. From start to finish it took me maybe 1 hour. And I'm not doing this for a living, Bob is.

And to me, those seats look used. The different coloration on the seat buns is throwing up flags in my book. And why are they leaning? The Napa kit Brett mentioned in his "Fix Leaning Seats" page shows the parts are under $20. Simple fix so why was it overlooked?

Since we're talking wheel wells, what's with the frame rust starting on the pic I showed with the funky body line? Look at the rail as it looks like a decent line of rust starting from Top to Bottom behind the rear wheel (headed back towards the trunk). If I didn't know any better, I'd say he simply sprayed some undercoating over a rusty frame rail as that's certainly what it looks like.

[brian c]

Joe,

I don't have an answer for you on your question. You have to do what's right for you. I know I wouldn't sleep at night knowing someone else had to suffer though.

Let's focus on your car to keep this a good healthy dialogue on what the car is and hopefully get you the best product available. As Flounder mentioned, the more we bring up, the more Bob has to fix so hopefully he realizes that he can't snowball the general public and has to focus his trade skills elsewhere. Sound fair??