Topic: Build a Bandit

[JupiterBandit]

You're right midyear. I'm a big dummy. I stood too close to my sign.


Anyway, $4,500 for 400hp? That's a steal Flounder55. I priced out my engine and it was going to run between $5,500 and $6,000 to pull those kinds of numbers. But to put it back to stock it would run me $2,000-$3000. Of course now if I did it myself then I could save some coin, which I may do.

[JupiterBandit]

what's the other 3k for?

he may have to turn a profit

True, True. And it doesn't cost $3k to massage a car that's fairly straight either. I bet he's using the Maaco special $500-$900 paint job. Another quick way to save. Maaco is alright if you prep the body yourself and you enjoy wet sanding the crap out of your car. I'm just saying if he knew what he was doing he could have run a business making good money building drivers. $15k into a straight car is a good chunk of change.

See Midyear! I don't sound too crazy, now do I?

It doesn't cost $15k to do what Bob is doing. IMO

[gilbertsta]

I wonder what west coast customs or chip foose would charge for a restore job? I would think 15g is cheap? You can charge what the market and your reputation can bare. Skill/labor/time all come into play.  I think of car building like art.  Ppl pay much more than 15g for some paint on canvas. The time the tools the building the skill needed to restore these cars should be more appreciated. Not every mechanic/body guy is a picasso.  If you want the best than seek the best. But sometimes you may get a break from an up and coming restorer...thats the risk you take...

78 trans am /400/brown

[Flounder55]

Jupiter,

 Look at Rock and Roll engineering, They have gone up to 4800 but he still offers that set up.

 His name is Bruce Fulper and he is quite knowledgeable about Pontiac motors

[JupiterBandit]

I would think $15k for a rebuild is a lot. I mean 3k in body, 3k in paint, 3k in interior, 3k in motor what's the other 3k for? I know suspension brakes and tires. And that is good money for that stuff too!

lets see, how complete and nice is a 3K ta currently?? there are additional body parts you may need to replace, trans, exhaust, weatherstrips, wheels and tires, most likely a windshield, wheel flares are always an issue, some grills, decals and stripes......that alone is easily over 3K.

you are assuming you can go out and buy a solid, straight, complete, running, rust free t top trans am for 3k, because if its not, no body shop will touch the paint for 3K, and any performance mods will run the engine well over 3K. any real shop trying to make any profit at all, would have a hard time supplying and building a nice TA for 15K without cutting corners

I see the disconnect. I said a rebuild not a restoration. Bob's not restoring the car. Hes just freshening it. using the old stuff and starting with what Jgodar says was a straight car. You are not going to dump $3k into the body. Bob doesn't look like he's spraying a $3k paint job, The interior doesn't look like more than $2k. So the money saved buys wheels, tires, exhaust, decals, ect ect ect.....

A full frame off would run $20-$30k easily. But I didn't say Full frame off.

As for restoring cars I got a TA on a rotisserie right now. I have almost all the sheet metal done and I may have $400 into it. both floor pans, trunk drop downs, and toe boards. No rust left at all.

So sorry if I mis spoke

[Flounder55]

The disconnect here is that BOB OFFERS ( advertises) a fully restored 78 T/A BUT that's not what you get.

 There in lies the disconnect. Your not getting what your paying.....I take that back  ...you are NOT getting what you THOUGHT you were paying for and it takes 2 1/2 times longer than advertised.

[midyear]

As for restoring cars I got a TA on a rotisserie right now. I have almost all the sheet metal done and I may have $400 into it. both floor pans, trunk drop downs, and toe boards. No rust left at all.

So, you got a shop to completely disassemble you car, put it on a rotisserie, replace the pans and rust..for $400??? I think not, I think $400 only covers the price of the new sheet metal, no labor at all.

If you are doing your car yourself you are not factoring in the labor cost associated with the build, also inexperience causes some jobs to be done twice, how many of us have wasted too many hours learning how to do things the hard (long) way.

You initially posted you thought there was $3k in fluff in Bobs prices, I am saying a reputable shop can not make money doing $15k restorations and supplying a car. If so the market would be flooded with them.

I am in no way defending Bob, but he was not making money doing the work, he only profited by ripping people off on a ponzie type scheme. and now he is broke and unable to complete his obligations.

as for shortcuts, yup, Bob has used what appears to be all of them, and look were it got him, but he still had a staff, and he still had payroll to meet, and shop rent, ect. all of this took $$$, Every day it seems a business goes out from not anticipating how much payroll and operating costs would actually be.

Since this appears to be your first restoration, I wish you luck, and hope it turns out as nice as you are hoping it will, just wait and see how much it costs even doing it yourself. If you keep a spreadsheet of hours and parts I believe you will be surprised, the little thing really do add up fast. and I can say that from many years of experience.

[midyear]

You're right midyear. I'm a big dummy. I stood too close to my sign.

and please go back and reread the posts...I never called you anything, and did not comment on your sign, I only gave a perspective from another point of view.

[JupiterBandit]

You're right midyear. I'm a big dummy. I stood too close to my sign.

and please go back and reread the posts...I never called you anything, and did not comment on your sign, I only gave a perspective from another point of view.

LOL Hey man, all in good fun. I am just messing around. You never called me anything. It was me not being clear in what I was writting. That's why I appologized in my last post.

My point is for $15k you can get a hell of a driver and Flounder55 did not even get that.

I will put between $15-$20k in my car and it will be close to frame off, me doing most of the work and that is with out any high performance mods.

[JupiterBandit]

As for a shop price, they charge $50 per hour here. Floor pans take maybe 8 hrs both sides to an experienced guy. $400 in labor $180 in pans.


And this isn't my first rodeo.

I have 2 1977 SE's being restored right now and I've done a few Mustangs. My first GM was a 1981 Z28 I restored when I was 19.

ASE certified Mechanic
Worked in bodyshops for years. (granted I only pulled dents, filled and sanded)

As for the interior. You mean he didn't cap the dash and just re dye most of it? lol

It doesn't take $15k to do what Bob is doing





 

[Flounder55]

Hey Jupiter, just for the record you know it was me that said the thing about standing too close to the sign. It's all in fun guys..........! All in fun....

[tawidow]

I'm not crying too hard on how little Bob makes on these builds.  He has 35 customers that he admits to and you guys said that there are about 8 being worked on.  That's about $65K per car if every victim paid an average of $15K.  He never stops looking for new victims and laughs all the way to the bank every time he suckers a new one in.

[RainMan]

Mid year you nailed it , he is only making profit by ripping people off . The math doesn't work out otherwise IMO .
I know things are cheaper in the USA so I have a hard time doing a comparison , but to repaint my Marty is close to 7 to 8K here and that's not including decals . I am going to need over 10 K for a color change if I change it into the SE clone I've always wanted . Then again we haven't had a shop rate of $50 an hour since 1980.


The  math just doesn't add up here as if your paying employees to build these cars the labor involved  would eat any profit , so I'm agreeing with the others that stated this is no more than a Ponzi scheme .
Jupiter your doing most of your own labor correct ? you don't seem to include the fact that there's people being payed to work on these cars , so your estimates on costs are a little unrealistic .400 bucks wouldn't cover repairing a scratch 1 inch long here. I know , we accidentally scratched a car 12 years ago at work when some strand touched it , and it costs 500 bucks to repair

[Flounder55]

Rain....that's my second favorite color for these cars...Martinique Blue......Awesome looking color on those T/A's

[johnc9909]

Hey Flounder, I have a Atlantis Blue 79 T/A you might like to see. I believe it is very close in color. Martinique Blue is a 78 color, Atlantis Blue a 79 color.