Topic: worse case scenario! insert spun on front sway bar to frame

[pontiacman]

all 4 of mine did that and i had to grind the head off the bolt to get it off.
this is how i fixed it it looks alright but it does work: get 4 bolts and nuts, using a long extension and a swivel with the right socket dip the head of the bolt in grease and put it in the socket it will hold really good then worm it in through the holes that are there and then put the nut on i used an impact to "zip" it up tight but you can use two ratchets and it will work the same way. its not "factory" but it does work all of mine match so you cant tell a difference on mine. its a little aggraviting only if your not patient.

[RainMan]

what 78ta said

lmao ,yup that is probably the correct answer . I would like to use one life line  though Reggis

well if I put my tires back on right now ,I can get it spot welded after work .Ian from the muffler shop is awesome ,and said he would wait for me to come after work so it could be done for sure . But now I am worried about the whole welding idea . maybe the insert cant even be welded?  I wish someone here has tried it once

[RainMan]

this is exactly what I need

It's your car but I gotta say.....

What you need is a labotomy. 

I can't imagine that the tool would cost less than $75 plus shipping and you'll use it once.......?

I understand correctness and doing a job right and all. But in all seriousness, tack welding the rivnut in place will actually provide a better, stronger end result than was produced by the factory or that new gun will. Not to mention being $50 cheaper. And you can have it done by tomorrow afternoon instead of by the winter.

Again, it's your car, so you gotta do what you gotta do.

your not the first person to mention a  labotomy lol . Actually the tool I would like would be in the hundreds of dollars . But just maybe I may have to use it twice in a life time ,so it will pay for itself

[78ta]

Glad you took that ribbing as intended.

As far as damaging the rivnut during the welding process, you just want to make sure they aren't using a stick welder. That would be way too hot and likely melt the rivnut. It needs to be welded with a MIG welder so that they can adjust the setting low enough to match the size of the metal they're welding. Any competant welder will know this. We're just talking about three small tack welds around the head. If he cools it with a wet rag after each spot/tack weld, it should be fine. You do want to sand or grind the frame to bare metal around the head of the rivnut so that he isn't welding through paint and grease though. It can be done but would require him to turn the welder up higher in order to arc through the layers of paint and grease and it would not produce as good a weld.

I read on the web page for the rivnut tool that the rivnuts are made of very strong materials. This and the fact that the head is pretty large in diameter makes me think that it should accept 3 or 4 decent tack welds done properly just fine with out affecting the threads. 

You seem to have confidance in the person at the muffler shop. But, just so that you aren't dissappointed, I'd spell out exactly what you want done and how you want it done when you ask for a price for doing the job. IE, use a MIG welder and 3 or 4 good tack welds, cooled with a wet rag after each one so as not to damage the rivnut.

I'd grind the frame to bare metal around the head myself to save him the trouble and so that you know it's done. That way, all he has to do is push the nut up into the hole and make 3 or 4 tacks, cooling with a wet rag in between each one. Once it's up on the lift, it shouldn't take more than 5 minutes tops.

[RainMan]

Hey Randy ,I bought my first caliper today (digital),just so I could measure the size of the insert in there already . I am getting like .49 inch on the diameter that is in the frame ,so I would call that a half inch . The outside is .78 of an inch . So there is quite a bit of a ridge to weld to . I should have removed the sway bar this evening and put the tires back on insread of pissing around doing research on riv nuts all evening ( I think I'm going nuts).
I am going to go to the GM body shop tommorow first thing though ,just to inquire about these riv nuts . Maybe they won't have one in a half inch diameter anyways ,who knows . I guess I can still get the stuff apart on my lunch hour if I am working in town tommorow , Then I could get it welded after work and I can cruise this long weekend . I am doubtful though . I can still get the whole thing together ,just not sure if the hole is going to get larger from rubbing ,as it will be kinda loose and working on the hole all the time

And thanks for the advice Randy ,I will ask him if he is in fact using a stick welder , I suspect its a wire feed though . But very good point

[78ta]

You're welcome.

As far as the hole getting larger, you do have three other bolts holding the sway bar in place so it shouldn't be exposed to too much movement. Just drive easy.

I believe the hole in the sway bar mounting bracket is a little larger than the actual bolt. Isn't it? So I doubt that, even if the hole has wallowed out some from driving it, you should still be able to line the bolt up to the rivnut. If the hole has enlarged some, I'd obviously try and center the rivnut before welding it.

You mentioned going to the body shop looking for a rivnut. If the hole has enlarged significantly, a new rivnut may not work. You may have to get the next larger diameter but with the same thread.

Another tip that just popped into my head, it'd be a good idea to put some grease up inside the rivnut on the threads to protect them from weld spatter. What might even be better would be to put some grease on a long bolt of the same thread size as the rivnut and thread it up into the hole. This way, the weld spatter can't get up into the threads and if some does, the grease should keep it from sticking to the threads. Using a long bolt just allows him or you to be able to hold the rivnut in place while welding it.
If you do get some weld spatter on the threads, you'll just have to run a tap through them to clean them up again.  

Closing thought, it's a good idea to disconnect your battery anytime you're welding on the car. More especially newer cars with sensitive electronics but still a good idea on any car.

[RENOVATIONS]

But now I am worried about the whole welding idea . maybe the insert cant even be welded?  I wish someone here has tried it once

You have to READ and stop just looking at the pretty pictures  

And yes, (if you choose to keep that one in place) they can be secured in place with a few tack welds around the outer perimeter ...I have done this in the past to prevent them from spinning...it works well.

I have a picture if you need physical proof...now quit biting your nails... have it welded and be done with it! 

[RainMan]

But now I am worried about the whole welding idea . maybe the insert cant even be welded?  I wish someone here has tried it once

You have to READ and stop just looking at the pretty pictures  

And yes, (if you choose to keep that one in place) they can be secured in place with a few tack welds around the outer perimeter ...I have done this in the past to prevent them from spinning...it works well.

I have a picture if you need physical proof...now quit biting your nails... have it welded and be done with it!  

OMG LMAO . I believe you Jeff .As a matter of fact she will hopefully be fixed tommorow morning. I am hoping to do some traveling this long weekend . Although the highways may be a little nuts .
The local body shop has a mechanical riv nut tool ,but the only riv nut they coulld find has this little lip on it ,so a no go . 6 weeks to get the tool in stock if I wanted one . I would pay for one if I could have it tommorow ,as I think there kinda cool . But I would get the electric one ,or neumatic

[79T/Aman]

It's all steel , just weld it, no black magic

[UJSLOST]

Rain Man did you resolve this problem?   I had the same thing happen to me 2 nights ago.

Was running the bolts up with my impact and it seems like I stripped the threads. I havent pulled the thing back apart to see if I have those rivnuts or not. I am thinking I will drill those holes out larger stick a nut up in the hole and weld that in and be done. Im pretty sure my threads stripped though using the impact. A buddy was helping and he doesnt realize the torque my little red snap on 3/8s impact makes (300 ft lbs!).

[RENOVATIONS]

Your car would have the riv-nut inserts (2 per side) also.

While it's possible that you may have stripped the threads, you more than likely broke the insert loose by using an impact.

I'd recommend removng the sway bar bracket to inspect. If just the bolt turns, the threads are stripped...if the insert AND bolt turn (as I suspect they will), just tack weld the insert in place (as described in this thread and the problem will be solved).

[RainMan]

Rain Man did you resolve this problem?   I had the same thing happen to me 2 nights ago.

Was running the bolts up with my impact and it seems like I stripped the threads. I havent pulled the thing back apart to see if I have those rivnuts or not. I am thinking I will drill those holes out larger stick a nut up in the hole and weld that in and be done. Im pretty sure my threads stripped though using the impact. A buddy was helping and he doesnt realize the torque my little red snap on 3/8s impact makes (300 ft lbs!).

I'm with Jeff on this one to . Chances are much better its spinning ,not stripped . I got mine tack welded at a muffler shop for free . I would have actually have boughten an electric riv nut gun for 500 bucks if it didn't take 6 weeks to get here